Help With Tuning Pegs Please

[Jim Comeaux]

As I was changing strings on my LL-16 this afternoon I noticed that one of the nuts that (I think) hold the peg in place was loose. When I checked them, I found that all 6 of the nuts were loose. Well, a 10mm wrench took care of the nuts, but I noticed that 5 of the 6 tuning posts were loose. By loose I mean that they could be jiggled back and forth just a little bit. What concerns me is, why 5? Why not all 6? They all adjust smoothly and hold tuning really well, but I just wonder is the one solid post wrong or are all 5 of the loose ones wrong? I can’t really tell or even examine them closely. They are closed back tuners and what’s going on inside is a mystery.

[Goat Mick]

Almost every guitar I own has a little slack where the tuning posts come through the bushings. It's absolutely nothing to worry about. Oh BTW whose "nuts" you tightened are actually bushings that push into the tuner holes. They're not threaded on to anything. And yes I tried to tighten them on a guitar back in the early days before I found out what they are.

[Bob from Brooklyn]

How do they behave once you have it strung up? That's the important part.

[lowrider]

I had a guitar with one of those bushings (nuts) that was loose. When I did a string change I put a couple of wraps of plumbers tape on it and pushed it back in. Then using tweezers, I pulled out any tape that was showing. It never came loose again.

I don't know why they shape them like hex nuts. Makes no sense to me.

[Mirosh]

That looseness will not be apparent once the strings are tensioned. IDK why one is not loose. Maybe the small screw that holds the button on is too tight - but I am not sure of the mechanics right there. While strings are off, or when installing new tuners, you might wind each tuning post around and back a time or two. That may help distribute grease in there. The nuts you snugged up are nuts; they thread onto the collar that surrounds the turning shaft that holds the string. Before tightening them, I turn each machine so it's snug against the hole. There's a little play there. Machines on the right side of the headstock can rotate a bit counterclockwise; on the left, clockwise. (Same direction the tensioned strings will pull on their machines.) Snug the nuts, then snug the small screw on the back side of the headstock.

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by Goat Mick

Oh BTW whose "nuts" you tightened are actually bushings that push into the tuner holes. They're not threaded on to anything. And yes I tried to tighten them on a guitar back in the early days before I found out what they are.

Correct in the case of open-back tuners, but not so in the case of closed back tuners, Mick. They are threaded and act as the second securing point for the tuner, the first point being the single wood-screw securing the tuner body to the back of the headstock. Those bushings are tightened using a 10mm wrench.

The OP stated that his tuners are the closed-back type.

[Goat Mick]

Originally Posted by JayBee1404

Correct in the case of open-back tuners, but not so in the case of closed back tuners, Mick. They are threaded and act as the second securing point for the tuner, the first point being the single wood-screw securing the tuner body to the back of the headstock. Those bushings are tightened using a 10mm wrench.

The OP stated that his tuners are the closed-back type.

I have Grover and Klueson closed back tuners that are push in bushings, so it is not the case with all over them.

[YamahaGuy]

Originally Posted by Goat Mick

Almost every guitar I own has a little slack where the tuning posts come through the bushings. It's absolutely nothing to worry about. Oh BTW whose "nuts" you tightened are actually bushings that push into the tuner holes. They're not threaded on to anything. And yes I tried to tighten them on a guitar back in the early days before I found out what they are.

As owner of many modern Yamaha guitars I can assure anyone that the "nuts" in fact thread into the tuner body on the tuners in question. I've changed several sets and they hold the tuning body to the headstock. The little screws keep the tuning machines from rotating.

On some guitars they are merely bushings, as with open gear tuners found on Eastman guitars.

[Jim Owen]

Jim,
I wouldn’t worry about a little play. It’s interesting that 5 out of 6 have a little play whilst 1 is firm. But that still would not be a big worry as long as your tuners still work smoothly.

You’ve made a discovery to remember, though. Those nuts do loosen naturally over time. You’ll find that from time to time you’ll hear a buzz you can’t track down. There’s a good chance you’re really hearing a tiny rattle from a loose bolt.

[drive-south]

I wouldn't over tighten those nuts. That could damage the finish on the headstock.

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by Goat Mick

I have Grover and Klueson closed back tuners that are push in bushings, so it is not the case with all over them.

That’s very interesting, Mick. I didn’t know that - my education has been improved today. Thanks for the info!

[Jim Comeaux]

I appreciate all of the advice and opinions, thanks. My main concern was that the six were not consistent. I inherently distrust things when, “one of these things is not like the others”.