rhythms of old country blues guitar

[CooloutAC]

I go by the merriam webster definition of commercial:

being of an average or inferior quality <commercial oxalic acid> <show-quality versus commercial cattle> (2) : producing artistic work of low standards for quick market success 2 a : viewed with regard to profit <a commercial success> b : designed for a large market

Popular isn't bad though.

[JohnZ]

Originally Posted by CooloutAC

oh nice tidbit man i didn't know that.

My great grandfather was an engineer on the Katy (Kansas & Texas) railroad till an injury forced his retirement in 1910. Though he was quite a showman in his own right, quite a few cool player rode the Katy back then, my favorite being Henry Thomas. Listen to him and you'll see where Canned Heat's Al Wilson got his material.

[rbock]

Hey Coolout. Welcome to the forum. I'm enjoying your posts and agree with most of what you say. Don't let the old dogs run you off.

[CooloutAC]

Originally Posted by JohnZ

My great grandfather was an engineer on the Katy (Kansas & Texas) railroad till an injury forced his retirement in 1910. Though he was quite a showman in his own right, quite a few cool player rode the Katy back then, my favorite being Henry Thomas. Listen to him and you'll see where Canned Heat's Al Wilson got his material.

oh wow dude! theres a classic blind lemon jefferson i sing bad luck blues. I always sang it as you catch the kate and i'll catch that santa fe" never realized that was short for kansas and texas. pretty cool. from stefan grossmans texas blues tabs.

[zombywoof]

Originally Posted by CooloutAC

Son house and willie brown considered robert johnson the best and most skilled. singer and ability on the guitar. especially when he first came back from arkansas and the first piece he played for them was the terraplane blues.

When Johnson disappeared, he went home to Mississippi. While there he was taught by a guy named Ike Zimmerman (or Zinnerman)who lived in a small town named Beauregard which was near Johnson's hometown of Hazelhurst. Story was Zimmerman used to play in the graveyard at night.

Don't know about the later years but House actually claimed that Johnson was such a poor player before he did his disappearing act that people would ask someone him take the guitar away from he as he couldn't play the thing. House himself claimed he once told Johnson his playing was so bad he should give up on the guitar and take up the harp.

[CooloutAC]

Originally Posted by zombywoof

When Johnson disappeared, he went home to Mississippi. While there he was taught by a guy named Ike Zimmerman (or Zinnerman)who lived in a small town named Beauregard which was near Johnson's hometown of Hazelhurst. Story was Zimmerman used to play in the graveyard at night.

Don't know about the later years but House actually claimed that Johnson was such a poor player before he did his disappearing act that people would ask someone him take the guitar away from he as he couldn't play the thing. House himself claimed he once told Johnson his playing was so bad he should give up on the guitar and take up the harp.

Ya i heard that he was really bad. and that They called him little robert and said he just made a racket on the guitar and should give it. I guess thats why they said he must of sold his soul to the devil to get good lol.

I've heard stories how he went to Arkansas or he went to chicago...but never heard the story about zimmerman though thats real interesting. from what i understand though he was constantly travelling a true rolling stone.

[mtnByker]

Enjoy:
Honey, Where You Been So Long?

[CooloutAC]

Originally Posted by rbock

Hey Coolout. Welcome to the forum. I'm enjoying your posts and agree with most of what you say. Don't let the old dogs run you off.

thanks. i'm happy with the enlightening posts, this forum is great lots of info. I orginally joined to try and get a rev gary davis tab. I instanly got a link from a member. I've also learned some picking techniques and answers on guitar maintenance questions as well.

[CooloutAC]

Originally Posted by mtnByker

Enjoy:
Honey, Where You Been So Long?

oh some cool site...tks ya... from what i understand, as jelly roll describes it... in those days (100 years ago) piano was considered an instrument for ladies and fairys. And a man who played piano got the femininity stamp. So they were more likely do tough and vulgar songs.

but at the same time piano players made the most money back then.

[CooloutAC]

Hey neil i'm starting to suspect, that this chapei ven dong music artists from cambodia were actually influenced by the blues. He calls his stuff mekong delta blues?

this this really a completly ancient style or did they get influenced by some american music and create some sort of fusion? Is there anymore about this style you can tell me? I dont' mean to be skeptical... supposedly he is the only remaining artist that survived an attempted genocide on his people to wipe out the culture too. that insane lol


I'm prolly being a typical american.... I guess they just have alot of uncanny similarities. i think its only on that one album they were purposely blending blues with their tradional.

[Alberto]

Lol, this thread, reminds me of sitting around the dorm room talking crap after a few beers and how this or that is the real thing.

About music getting commercialized and being less some how, here's the view from a music scholar who is a huge blues fan -

From Ted Gioia's book, 'Delta Blues' pg 169,

' ...Johnson's vision of the blues is more indebted to the phonograph than to the plantation, more a reflection of commercial tastes than the continuation of a folkloric tradition." "....his posthumus success, his tremendous influence and appeal came from his ability to transform the blues into a marketable popular music."

About Robert Johnson's inability to play , the same book, it notes that Johnson did suck when Son House first saw him, but he was very young and hadn't learned how to play (he was a little kid hanging out very and picking up House's guitar between sets). Johnson moved away and when House saw him next, probably years later, he was killing it, because he learned to play and was gigging by then.

Also the whole cross roads legend, Tommy Johnson who preceded RJ made the same claims about how he learned to play, RJ wasn't original here.

No dis-respect is meant towards Robert Johnson with all this. But arguments about who is original or more authentic don't ever pan out. Now your comparisons of blues, especially early blues and hip-hop are definitely insightful.

[Neal]

Originally Posted by CooloutAC

Hey neil i'm starting to suspect, that this chapei ven dong music artists from cambodia were actually influenced by the blues. He calls his stuff mekong delta blues?

this this really a completly ancient style or did they get influenced by some american music and create some sort of fusion? Is there anymore about this style you can tell me? I dont' mean to be skeptical... supposedly he is the only remaining artist that survived an attempted genocide on his people to wipe out the culture too. that insane lol


I'm prolly being a typical american.... I guess they just have alot of uncanny similarities. i think its only on that one album they were purposely blending blues with their tradional.

Heavily influenced by American blues. In 1931, Robert Johnson and Son House went to Cambodia to help in the rice fields. While there, they met Chen Do, the originator of that "Chapei von deng", the 2 string instrument. They taught him the old field hollers, and he in turn passed it down through Kong Ney.

Both RJ and Son House were fluent in Cambodian, and their music influenced all of Cambodian folk music. BB King to this day still owns Robert Johnson's old vacation house in Phnom Penh, and does an anual concert on the Cambodian New Year, which falls in April. 2nd Tuesday, as a matter of fact.

[zombywoof]

C'mon now, I love those guys but yeah, there was a bit of selling out - remember the LPs Muddy and Wolf cut with all those British rock stars - Wolf later called the one he made with them Then again, since so many folks backed into the blues - having heard guys like Clapton before they ever heard of Robert Johnson or Muddy, it was probably a smart move for Wolf and Muddy and a good way to introduce them to more folks.

[TomHB]

Originally Posted by zombywoof

C'mon now, I love those guys but yeah, there was a bit of selling out - remember the LPs Muddy and Wolf cut with all those British rock stars - Wolf later called the one he made with them . Then again, since so many folks backed into the blues - having heard guys like Clapton before they ever heard of Robert Johnson or Muddy, it was probably a smart move for Wolf and Muddy and a good way to introduce them to more folks.

"Selling out"?

These guys, just eking out a living, are called "sellouts" for taking advantage of any financial break that comes their way? I'll have to share this attitude with a local homeless busker that was on the pier singing Christmas songs over the holidays. "YOU SELLOUT!" I'll yell at him as I waltz on by, maybe tossing a buck in his guitar case... "SING SOME BLUES!"



Man this is a bizarre thread.

[cc132]

Everyone is a critic.