Martin String Length

Victory Pete · #1 10-23-2016, 05:55 AM

I have noticed my 1998 HD-28 and my new D-42 have slightly different string lengths. The distance to the saddle is about 1/16th" more on the D-42. Both guitars seem to be intonated okay. I am curious about this.

HHP · #2 10-23-2016, 05:58 AM

What are you measuring? Tuner to bridge pin?

Victory Pete · #3 10-23-2016, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HHP

What are you measuring? Tuner to bridge pin?

No, nut to saddle.

simpl man · #4 10-23-2016, 08:39 AM

As far as I know, both guitars should have a 25.4" (~ 25-13/32") scale length.

Might be hard to accurately measure with something like a tape measure that isn't totally rigid.

Out of curiousity, do either of the 2 match the advertised spec?

ohYew812 · #5 10-23-2016, 08:47 AM

Well, scale length is edge of nut to the middle of the 12th fret x 2.

Does one have a compensated saddle and the other not?

Victory Pete · #6 10-23-2016, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simpl man

As far as I know, both guitars should have a 25.4" (~ 25-13/32") scale length.

Might be hard to accurately measure with something like a tape measure that isn't totally rigid.

Out of curiousity, do either of the 2 match the advertised spec?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohYew812

Well, scale length is edge of nut to the middle of the 12th fret x 2.

Does one have a compensated saddle and the other not?

I am using a rigid aluminum ruler, the 1998 HD-28 is 1/16" shorter from nut to saddle than the new D-42. Ironically the older HD-28 didn't come with a compensated saddle but now has one. The D-42 came with a compensated saddle but I changed it to uncompensated unbleached bone. Could this be a clue?

jim1960 · #7 10-23-2016, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victory Pete

I am using a rigid aluminum ruler, the 1998 HD-28 is 1/16" shorter from nut to saddle than the new D-42. Ironically the older HD-28 didn't come with a compensated saddle but now has one. The D-42 came with a compensated saddle but I changed it to uncompensated unbleached bone. Could this be a clue?

Don't measure from the nut to the saddle. Measure from the nut to the center of the 12th fret (the fret itself, not the space behind where you'd put your finger). Take that number and multiply it by two and that's your scale length.

A lot of info here, although he doesn't get to Martins until the end.

Victory Pete · #8 10-23-2016, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim1960

Don't measure from the nut to the saddle. Measure from the nut to the center of the 12th fret (the fret itself, not the space behind where you'd put your finger). Take that number and multiply it by two and that's your scale length.

A lot of info here, although he doesn't get to Martins until the end.

I understand how to measure, and there seems to be different ways to do it. What my point is that 2 Martin guitars have different lengths. Doesn't really matter what those lengths are, just that one is 1/16" longer. That is the mystery.

Earl49 · #9 10-23-2016, 10:32 AM

Years ago Martin reportedly hired a physicist who told them the "ideal" position of the saddle and bridge. However, it wasn't because strings are not ideal. There are bending issues and other things to actually consider. The correct placement is a bit further away than the mathematical ideal.

My 1990 custom shop J-40 always had intonation issues. When it came time for a neck reset, the repair luthier found that the saddle was 1.5 mm too close to the sound hole and nut (among other significant build issues). When he popped the bridge off and put it in the correct spot, suddenly the intonation was wonderful -- even with lowered tunings.

Your 1998 model might fall into that period, but your new D42 clearly does not. I believe they Plek the fingerboard now, which means they also have to put the bridge and saddle into the right place.

charles Tauber · #10 10-23-2016, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victory Pete

That is the mystery.

Follow the advice given so far in this thread and you will resolve the mystery. Start by determining the actual scale length of each instrument. Once you know that, the mystery will unravel.

Victory Pete · #11 10-23-2016, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earl49

Years ago Martin reportedly hired a physicist who told them the "ideal" position of the saddle and bridge. However, it wasn't because strings are not ideal. There are bending issues and other things to actually consider. The correct placement is a bit further away than the mathematical ideal.

My 1990 custom shop J-40 always had intonation issues. When it came time for a neck reset, the repair luthier found that the saddle was 1.5 mm too close to the sound hole and nut (among other significant build issues). When he popped the bridge off and put it in the correct spot, suddenly the intonation was wonderful -- even with lowered tunings.

Your 1998 model might fall into that period, but your new D42 clearly does not. I believe they Plek the fingerboard now, which means they also have to put the bridge and saddle into the right place.

Yes, I wondered if the new D-42 is the one with the more accurate position, it is 1/16" longer. It also has the most strings that are closest to being intonated right on, actually all strings but the 2 E's are right on. The small E wants to move towards the neck and the low E wants to go away from the neck. So it seems this is a good balance and compromise. The 1998 HD-28 has good intonation too, but it is a bit more inconsistent.

Victory Pete · #12 10-23-2016, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Follow the advice given so far in this thread and you will resolve the mystery. Start by determining the actual scale length of each instrument. Once you know that, the mystery will unravel.

The scale length of each Martin is the same: 25.4". It is the measured string length difference that is the mystery.

DenverSteve · #13 10-23-2016, 11:01 AM

Just play them already......

Victory Pete · #14 10-23-2016, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PastorSteve

Just play them already......

I have been, but thanks for the tip.

jim1960 · #15 10-23-2016, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victory Pete

I understand how to measure, and there seems to be different ways to do it. What my point is that 2 Martin guitars have different lengths. Doesn't really matter what those lengths are, just that one is 1/16" longer. That is the mystery.

I was going by what you said, "I am using a rigid aluminum ruler, the 1998 HD-28 is 1/16" shorter from nut to saddle than the new D-42."