The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 09-05-2016, 12:57 PM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12,231
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantjudoman View Post
Ok so i was looking to pick up a Martin perhaps d-18 or d-28 when I ran across a new 2016 gibson J-45 that just grabbed me. I compared it against so many others in the last week and it still sounds head and shoulders above the rest. When I tried to swing a deal with the shop they would not even flinch a dime on the price. Even though this 2016 guitar is already $400-500 more than last years model and even more expensive than a 2015 custom at a another one of the same chains stores. I will try again perhaps the manager can swing a couple bucks off. It just kinda rubs me the wrong way to pay full retail for ...ANYTHING! sorry for rant.
I don't know what your financial situation is, but if you found a Gibson J45 that you really like, I would suggest you buy it at the $2399 MAP rather than taking a chance on one you can's try first.

Good luck
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 09-05-2016, 01:32 PM
Phelonious Ponk Phelonious Ponk is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,087
Default

There are a lot of J-45s out there. I wouldn't pay full retail. Easier for me to say, because I don't believe in magic guitars, built from the same materials and design, that are just miles above the rest. I've played a lot of Montana Gibsons, and found them very consistent. But your best guarantee of getting a guitar you really love? Buy them used, but just barely. Profit from the plague of GAS out there that has guys letting go of great instruments every day. Do that, and you can get your money back out of it pretty easily if it doesn't thrill you, and then try another one.

P
__________________
One amazing '03 OJ
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 09-05-2016, 02:25 PM
Gasworker Gasworker is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,188
Default

I feel sorry for brick and mortar retailers. People honestly believe they are entitled to bicker on price but they have no idea what the margins are.
There is likely more profit in guitar supplies and maybe the OP could ask for a couple free packs of strings or 20% off a gig bag. This may close the deal.
__________________
A couple of Halcyons and a Canadian made Larrivee

"Wish I had more time to hear your reasons, but I have to go get a beer." 00-28

Last edited by Gasworker; 09-05-2016 at 02:51 PM. Reason: Nicening
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 09-05-2016, 03:17 PM
bryantjudoman bryantjudoman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Vancouver Canada
Posts: 277
Default Magical importance... YES!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scriv58 View Post
never haggle over items of magical importance
Yes i will go get the guitar as soon as i am off work on tuesday after our Canadian labour day holiday. That is what music is after all...magic. Taking sticks wire and bits of metal then moving whole crowds of people. Haggling over a couple hundred is kinda silly when seen in context. I WILL get the guitar that entranced me.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 09-05-2016, 04:04 PM
brencat's Avatar
brencat brencat is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 7,645
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales View Post
I don't know what your financial situation is, but if you found a Gibson J45 that you really like, I would suggest you buy it at the $2399 MAP rather than taking a chance on one you can's try first.

Good luck
If it were only $2399 net that we're talking about, I would agree with you. However, it sounds like this may be a Canadian store, in which case all bets are off and the price may be much higher.
__________________
Merrill | Martin | Collings | Gibson

For Sale: 2023 Collings D2H 1 3/4 Nut, Adi Bracing, NTB -- $4250 shipped
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 09-06-2016, 12:36 AM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1,649
Default

I got mine with a %20 coupon from my friend who is an employee at Guitar Center.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 09-06-2016, 05:29 AM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,292
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantjudoman View Post
Ok so i was looking to pick up a Martin perhaps d-18 or d-28 when I ran across a new 2016 gibson J-45 that just grabbed me. I compared it against so many others in the last week and it still sounds head and shoulders above the rest. When I tried to swing a deal with the shop they would not even flinch a dime on the price. Even though this 2016 guitar is already $400-500 more than last years model and even more expensive than a 2015 custom at a another one of the same chains stores. I will try again perhaps the manager can swing a couple bucks off. It just kinda rubs me the wrong way to pay full retail for ...ANYTHING! sorry for rant.
If you found a top notch J45, just buy it. I always buy the guitar in hand, even if it's more expensive. I've learned the hard way.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
__________________
"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 09-06-2016, 09:12 AM
baimo baimo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: LA CA
Posts: 1,921
Default

I used to feel that if the guitar at a store sounds and feels great, I would buy it and then I started visiting UMGF and AGF. I realized that I paid the map for my HD-28 which was 3059 instead of 3899 MSRP. Seemed like a decent deal but then I learned that there were places you could get a bigger discount like paying 2340 instead of the big box discount of 3059. To me this made a huge difference and if they had a decent return policy, it became a no-brainer. If I bought 3 guitars at the bigger discount, I would have enough money left over to buy a 4th guitar (yeah maybe a little sick).
So if I try a small manufacturers guitar in hand and love the guitar, I will buy that guitar as most of these smaller retailers as they are allowed to take 10% off or lose their franchise.
But with big names like Martin or Gibson, shopping pays off big.
__________________
at 4. No more for awhile. Moving soon. Less is better until I settle.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 09-06-2016, 12:53 PM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12,231
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by baimo View Post
I used to feel that if the guitar at a store sounds and feels great, I would buy it and then I started visiting UMGF and AGF. I realized that I paid the map for my HD-28 which was 3059 instead of 3899 MSRP. Seemed like a decent deal but then I learned that there were places you could get a bigger discount like paying 2340 instead of the big box discount of 3059. To me this made a huge difference and if they had a decent return policy, it became a no-brainer. If I bought 3 guitars at the bigger discount, I would have enough money left over to buy a 4th guitar (yeah maybe a little sick).
So if I try a small manufacturers guitar in hand and love the guitar, I will buy that guitar as most of these smaller retailers as they are allowed to take 10% off or lose their franchise.
But with big names like Martin or Gibson, shopping pays off big.
Yes, the UMGF is big on price discussions, and as a result they end up sending folks to one or two discounters, who don't make it very easy for you to try a new Martin. The AGF however became the largest acoustic guitar forum while they still had their no pricing policy in place, so clearly members don't need to talk about prices for a forum to thrive. But eventually "friends" of a couple of discounters made it too tough to enforce the no pricing rule, so JR gave in, and opened the forum to price discussions.

For the newbies, the AGF started with two simple rules, #1 was be nice, and #2 was no pricing discussions. Here is rule #2.

#2 NO GUITAR PRICING DISCUSSIONS:

I respectfully ask that you keep guitar pricing discussions offline. I think pricing discussions in the public forum can hurt dealers and ultimately hurt customers. When someone posts that they bought a guitar for from dealer XXXXX XXXXX, that suddenly sets the price for a lot of other dealers to have to match to stay competitive. It doesn't matter if the more expensive dealer offers better service or value-adds, has a nicer display room where the instruments are better cared for, etc. If "YYYYY Guitars" is selling the same guitar for less money, many people are going to buy it. Now if you were the guy that just got great service buying your first Taylor guitar from your local dealer, you're so excited, you come online to see what other people are saying about this guitar and you find out that someone else just paid a few hundred less for the same model, how are you gonna feel?"


Like you, most folks are happy to pay MAP for a new guitar, which allows brick and mortar stores to thrive, but thanks to forums like this, B&M's are no longer thriving, which is why the AGF, and UMGF are not being embraced by the industry, in fact, quite the opposite.

And while Martin seems to feel guys like you buying four Martins instead of three at the expense of their dealers is a good thing, other manufacturers don't agree, and are taking steps to keep price discussions on forums like this from destroying their dealer network, and cheapening their brand. Case in point, after trying two guitars at one of the finest brick and mortar guitars stores in the US last week, you took home the Goodall, but ordered the Martin from a discounter. Clearly, had you not tried the Martin at the B&M, you would not have bought it, and had you not had the option of buying from the discounter, you would have more than likely bought it from the guy who made it possible for you to try it.

Note that my signature says "Guaranteed lowest Martin pricing" not guaranteed lowest pricing, and that's because most of the other builders I deal with feel deep discounting can hurt their brand, and I tend to agree. Folks can still get a good deal of course, but you will not see those deals being discussed on public forums, because as JR once said "pricing discussions in the public forum can hurt dealers and ultimately hurt customers"
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 09-06-2016, 01:41 PM
baimo baimo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: LA CA
Posts: 1,921
Default

I am thrilled that Martin has some guys that discount deeply. I went into a NYC store to buy a Goodall which I did. I also tried a om28A 1931 while in the shop. No way would I have bought that guitar from them at that price. I simply did not have that much available to spend. But I liked it so much that a day or two later I bought it from a discounter ( regardless if it was a map discounter or more). If Martin did not allow the discounting, I would not own the OM-28A 1931.
__________________
at 4. No more for awhile. Moving soon. Less is better until I settle.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 09-06-2016, 01:58 PM
Guitars+gems Guitars+gems is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,395
Default

Ted, About 10 years ago I went on a medical mission to Bejiing, China. We were a group of 15, and on a weekend excursion we all went to see the Great Wall. Of course we hit the souvenir stands before we left, and when we returned to the bus we started showing off our purchases, and doing currency conversions to find out exactly what we'd paid.

People had visited different stands in groups of 2 or 3. When we did the math, it turned out that some had gotten tee-shirts that came out to about one dollar US each. Others, headed up by a nurse who was a fierce and dedicated haggler, had gotten the same tee-shirts for 50 cents each. Would you believe that the dollar people were very peeved that they'd paid twice as much for the same shirts? One dollar per tee-shirt and they felt like they'd been ripped off because someone else paid only 50 cents! I wondered how the tee-shirt vendors could afford to feed their families at those prices.

These were good people, doctors, nurses, respiratory therapists, volunteering their time to do or help with heart surgery on children. And they all had plenty of money. But when people think someone else has gotten a better deal, they feel slighted and taken advantage of.

So I agree that it's best not to discuss prices on the forum.
__________________
Denise
Martin HD-28V VTS, MFG Custom
Taylor 358e 12 string
Martin 00L-17
Voyage Air OM04
Breedlove Oregon Concert
1975 Aria 9422
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 09-06-2016, 02:20 PM
golfnut golfnut is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 294
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantjudoman View Post
Yes i will go get the guitar as soon as i am off work on tuesday after our Canadian labour day holiday. That is what music is after all...magic. Taking sticks wire and bits of metal then moving whole crowds of people. Haggling over a couple hundred is kinda silly when seen in context. I WILL get the guitar that entranced me.
Ah. Thats the problem. You're in Canada. I'm in Canada and quit buying from here. My last 2 guitars I bought from US retailer. I bought one in July and one in August. The savings from buying those 2 guitars in the US over Canada are enough to buy a 3rd high end guitar. Although my intention wasn't to buy a 3rd high end guitar. To buy the guitars I bought in Canada I wouldn't have been able to afford them.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 09-06-2016, 02:58 PM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12,231
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by baimo View Post
I am thrilled that Martin has some guys that discount deeply. I went into a NYC store to buy a Goodall which I did. I also tried a om28A 1931 while in the shop. No way would I have bought that guitar from them at that price. I simply did not have that much available to spend. But I liked it so much that a day or two later I bought it from a discounter ( regardless if it was a map discounter or more). If Martin did not allow the discounting, I would not own the OM-28A 1931.
Steve, what if I told you that I know several Goodall dealers who also discount deeply? Would that change how you feel about your new Goodall?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitars+gems View Post
Ted, About 10 years ago I went on a medical mission to Bejiing, China. We were a group of 15, and on a weekend excursion we all went to see the Great Wall. Of course we hit the souvenir stands before we left, and when we returned to the bus we started showing off our purchases, and doing currency conversions to find out exactly what we'd paid.

People had visited different stands in groups of 2 or 3. When we did the math, it turned out that some had gotten tee-shirts that came out to about one dollar US each. Others, headed up by a nurse who was a fierce and dedicated haggler, had gotten the same tee-shirts for 50 cents each. Would you believe that the dollar people were very peeved that they'd paid twice as much for the same shirts? One dollar per tee-shirt and they felt like they'd been ripped off because someone else paid only 50 cents! I wondered how the tee-shirt vendors could afford to feed their families at those prices.

These were good people, doctors, nurses, respiratory therapists, volunteering their time to do or help with heart surgery on children. And they all had plenty of money. But when people think someone else has gotten a better deal, they feel slighted and taken advantage of.

So I agree that it's best not to discuss prices on the forum.
It's human nature to feel like you got cheated if you know someone else got a better deal, regardless how good your deal was. This is why JR had rule #2, it goes hand in hand with rule #1 IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 09-06-2016, 03:05 PM
bitraker bitraker is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: California
Posts: 1,804
Default

I bought mine at GC and got the 15% scratch and dent discount. All the scratches buffed out, btw.

what he said...I almost - almost snagged the same at my local GC - even with cruddy strings, it sounded great - lots of smudges and a few dings but nothing serious - just wasn't time I guess...Gibson, I am getting so close...

I used to think buying new was the be-all-end-all but my last four Martins have all been used, and they are gems - "used" is a misnomer - more like "played twice and shoved under the bed with a ding of frustration on the headstock"...

there lots of people out there with more money than drive and interest in mastering the acoustic guitar, which is easy to give up on when you are just starting out - as a result many simply give up and get rid of their quality guitars - their loss, our gain...
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 09-06-2016, 03:20 PM
AronW AronW is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Rockford, IL
Posts: 434
Default

IMO if you can't buy a guitar at MAP, or even a little discount, you shouldn't be buying it, look for a used one. SUPPORT the dealers that are making huge investments in their stores. The extra couple hundred dollars on each guitar adds up and can really help them out.

EDITED. Deleted most of my comment, it was unnecessary.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=