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View Poll Results: Collings vs. Santa Cruz
Collings 86 33.86%
Santa Cruz 113 44.49%
Not Sure 55 21.65%
Voters: 254. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 05-24-2010, 07:35 PM
drjond56 drjond56 is offline
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I am giving the nod to Collings, although as everyone has stated, both make superb instruments. I have found the build to be more consistent and generally a heavier guitar than the comparable SC models. That said, the Collings sound fits my ears better and does not really seem "heavier." Another perception I have with Santa Cruz, is that is seems to me their number of dealers has diminished over the last 3-4 years and therefore they are not as available to play as the Collings guitars. Has anyone else noted that?

Jon
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  #32  
Old 05-24-2010, 08:52 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Originally Posted by roberts View Post
Slight nod to Collings dreads, SCGC OMs.
I have a similar sort of feeling towards the guitars the two companies build. I don't think there's any question but that Collings has much better quality control, but Collings has better quality control than anybody else in the business.

What I've found, in terms of tone, I tend to prefer SCGC's interpretations of guitar model styles first developed by Martin (dreadnoughts, and especially OM's) while I think the Collings interpretations of guitar model styles first developed by Gibson are just outstanding. The Collings version of the J-185, for example, the Collings SJ, is just a terrific guitar.

So, short version: for Martin-style guitars, I think the Santa Cruz versions sound sweeter, and for Gibson-style guitars, I love the Collings versions.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller
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  #33  
Old 05-25-2010, 07:03 AM
kohara kohara is offline
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Comes down to the neck joint for me, and that means TONE. I know it's probably my imagination (not), but I like the old way (dovetail) better... creates a better sound to me every time...

Both make beautiful guitars of the absolute highest quality.
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  #34  
Old 05-25-2010, 04:31 PM
JTFoote JTFoote is offline
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Originally Posted by kohara View Post
Comes down to the neck joint for me, and that means TONE. I know it's probably my imagination (not), but I like the old way (dovetail) better... creates a better sound to me every time...

Both make beautiful guitars of the absolute highest quality.
I'm going to go out on a limb, and suggest that it may just be that you like that particular guitar the best, and the neck joint type has little to do with it.

You might find this discussion interesting: Dovetail Joint Revelation.

I'm beginning to feel that it's time that the old dovetail vs bolt-on hypothesis was laid to rest. No offense against you personally, forum member. It's just that some of that long held dogmatic belief that tends to circulate on these forums probably causes people to ignore otherwise excellent guitars, and for no good reason.

Enjoy the link!

... JT
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  #35  
Old 05-25-2010, 05:30 PM
TaylorKoaFan TaylorKoaFan is offline
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Originally Posted by JTFoote View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb, and suggest that it may just be that you like that particular guitar the best, and the neck joint type has little to do with it.

You might find this discussion interesting: Dovetail Joint Revelation.

I'm beginning to feel that it's time that the old dovetail vs bolt-on hypothesis was laid to rest. No offense against you personally, forum member. It's just that some of that long held dogmatic belief that tends to circulate on these forums probably causes people to ignore otherwise excellent guitars, and for no good reason.

Enjoy the link!

... JT
Agreed!!!!
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  #36  
Old 05-25-2010, 09:42 PM
kohara kohara is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTFoote View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb, and suggest that it may just be that you like that particular guitar the best, and the neck joint type has little to do with it.

You might find this discussion interesting: Dovetail Joint Revelation.

I'm beginning to feel that it's time that the old dovetail vs bolt-on hypothesis was laid to rest. No offense against you personally, forum member. It's just that some of that long held dogmatic belief that tends to circulate on these forums probably causes people to ignore otherwise excellent guitars, and for no good reason.

Enjoy the link!

... JT
Yes, let's lay it to rest... the dovetail guitars sound better. I would buy into your argument if my ears didn't demand otherwise. I've played (and owned) many Collings, Bourgeois and Taylors and, although I have tried very hard to own and love a few, have been wildly unsuccessful.

Go ahead and spend a ton of money on a "boutique" bolt-on if it makes you happy... stick to Gibson and Martin (or Santa Cruz) and you'll make other people happy...

Last edited by kohara; 05-25-2010 at 09:49 PM.
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  #37  
Old 05-25-2010, 09:45 PM
revive revive is offline
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I'm surprised that currently the poll is basically draw, with a slight favor towards SC. Based on what I've observed from AGF so far, I was expecting 60% of the votes would go to Collings.

My own preference will depend on my 'psychoacoustic' condition at the moment. I can imagine prefering SC on one day, and Collings on another day. But over the long-run, I think it'll be a toss overall where Collings will slightly win on the construction quality & aesthetic aspects, while SC will be slightly more appealing to my tonal taste.

Colllings OM2HA and D2HA that I tried were really really impressive. I'd even say incredible. Loud, powerful, bright, well-defined, fast-attack, lots of headroom, obviously very well built. The D2HA was a cannon's cannon; extremely powerful guitar. OM1MhSB was also excellent, although not as good as the other two.

Santa Cruz OM/PW, OM and H were also very very good. Definitely more vintage sounding, full, darker, warmer than Collings, though not as powerful. Perhaps more suitable for light fingerficking. The OM/PW was very light, responsive, articulate and very resonant. Kind of Colling-ish, IMO. The OM was very rich, complex, long sustain; the sound has been haunting me for weeks. The H was LOUD; I mean it just defies its size.

I myself am buying a SC Model F, which is supposed to sound like OM only bigger & bassier. It's comparable to other builders' "small jumbo" or Martin 0000/M; kind of like a medium between OM and Dread. I may come back with additional report in a couple of weeks.
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  #38  
Old 05-25-2010, 10:07 PM
kohara kohara is offline
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Why do no major artists, absolutely none (besides Lyle Lovett) play Collings or Santa Cruz? There's gotta be a reason for that???

Regarding acoustics... I'm watching a DVD of Neil Young playing some fabulous Martins... I have others with David Gilmour, Mark Knopfler, Emmylou Harris, Graham Nash, Joe Walsh, Chet Atkins and Jackson Browne playing Gibsons, JT playing an Olson, Mac McAnally, Steve Howe, David Crosby, Dan Fogelberg, Joni Mitchell and Stephen Stills playing Martins...

Why?
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  #39  
Old 05-25-2010, 10:20 PM
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rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kohara View Post
Why do no major artists, absolutely none (besides Lyle Lovett) play Collings or Santa Cruz? There's gotta be a reason for that???

Regarding acoustics... I'm watching a DVD of Neil Young playing some fabulous Martins... I have others with David Gilmour, Mark Knopfler, Emmylou Harris, Graham Nash, Joe Walsh, Chet Atkins and Jackson Browne playing Gibsons, JT playing an Olson, Mac McAnally, Steve Howe, David Crosby, Dan Fogelberg, Joni Mitchell and Stephen Stills playing Martins...

Why?
A partial list of guitarist guitar players (some Grammy winners and nominees in here also)

Collings
Pete Huttlinger, Tyler Grant, Josh Hungate, Brad Davis, Kenny and Amanda Smith, Jim Lauderdale, Tim O'Brien, Chris Hillman, Herb Peterson, Mark Cosgrove, Steve Kaufman, James Nash, Chris Newman, Cody Kilby, Keith Sewell, Rich Brotherton, David Doucet. See also http://www.collingsguitars.com/artists.php?ID=1



Santa Cruz
Alex Beaton
Alex Beckman
Alex Brumel
Alex Burns
Amy Fox
Andre Marchand
Andrew Jackson
Arlen Roth
Arturo Fiesta Circo
Barbara Higbie (Windham Hill)
Bart Allmand
Ben Harper
Betsy Rose
Bill Frisell
Bill Furner
Bill Nershi (String Cheese Incident)
Bob Brozman
Bob Carlin
Booie Beach (Lonesome Standard Time)
Brad Davis (Forrester Sisters)
Brad Pitt
Brian May
Bruce Johnson (Laurel Canyon Ramblers)
Bruce Molsky
Bubba Cloud jr.
Caren Armstrong
Carol McComb
Cathy Fink
Chelsea Constable
Cher
Chris Hillman
Chris Robinson
Christoph Scheffler
Colin Hay (Men At Work)
Courtney Patty
Curt Coffield
Dag Ingebrigtsen
Dan & Leland
Dan Ar Braz
Dan Tyminski
Dan Vickery (Counting Crows)
Dana Hess
Danny Heines (Shadowfax)
Darol Anger
Dave Keuning (The Killers)
Dave Matthews
David Crosby
David Grier
David Templeton
David Thiele
David Wilson
Dennis Robbins
Dick Hardwick
Dickey Betts
Doc Watson
Don Chapman
Don Cook
Don Edwards
Doug Sauter & Joshua Strodtman (Blueprintmusic)
Duck Baker
Dudley Murphy (Radio Flyer)
Ed Littlefield Jr.
Ed Pettersen
Ed Stankewick AKA "Mr. S"
Ellis Paul
Elvis Costello
Enrique Coria (David Grisman Quintet)
Eric Clapton
Eric Skye
Frank Montgomery
Gary Burnette
Gary Moore
Gary Talley
George Kuo
Gillian Welch
Glen Frey (Eagles)
Greg Merkle
Gypsy Soul - Roman Morykit
Hans York
Harry West
Hazel Wrigley
Henry Kaiser
Herb Pederson
Hoku Zuttermeister
Howard Yearwood
Hugh Williams (Lionel Ritchie)
Ilse DeLange
J.J. McGeehan
Jack Black
James Nash (the Waybacks)
Janis Ian
Jason Mozersky
Jeannie West
Jed Marum
Jeff Barbra
Jeff Tweedy (Wilco)
Jill Khovy
Jill Knight
Jimmy Buffett
Joan Baez
Joe Reyes
Joe Weed
Joey Miskulin
John Denver
John Hawes
John Mayer
John McCutcheon
John Paul Walters
John Wilcox (Marley's Ghost)
Johnny Cash
Johnny Mack
Jonathan Maness
Julian Lage
Kenny Loggins
Kenny Sultan
Kent Blazy
Kevin Kastning
Kim Forrester (Forrester Sisters)
Kristin Andreassen (Uncle Earl)
Lani Nash
Larry Graff (Banana Slug String Band)
Laurence Juber (Paul McCartney & Wings)
Ledward Kaapana
Maarten Decombel
Manuel Auteri
Marc Copely
Marcy Marxer
Mark Casstevens
Mark Karan (Bob Weir and Ratdog)
Martha Schuyler Thompson
Martin Taylor
Martyn Joseph
Matt Malley (Counting Crows)
Matt Nolen
Max Fisher
Michael Hearne
Michael Ronstadt (Santa Cruz River Band)
Mike Jones
Mike Severs
Milow
Mira Sorvino
Nancy Blake
Nat Keefe (Hot Buttered Rum)
Neal Hellman
Neil Hogan
Nick Charles
Nils Tuxen
Nokie Edwards (The Ventures)
Norman Blake
Otis Taylor
Paolo Saporiti
Pat Flynn
Patti Smith
Pedro Arévalo
Perry Sellars
Peter Blood
Peter Kaukonen
Priscilla Herdman
Rex Goh
Richard Bennett
Richard Julian
Rick Carter (Rollin In the Hay)
Robert Plant
Roger Reed (Laurel Canyon Ramblers)
Roman Morykit (Gypsy Soul)
Ron Block
Ron Loo
Rory Bourke
Ross Turner
Russ Barenberg
Ruthie Foster
Ruud Houweling (Cloudmachine)
Sarah Pirkle
Scott Coney
Scott Law
Sergio Lara
Simon Nicol (Fairport Convention)
Skip Ewing
Small Town Poets
SONiA (Disappear Fear)
Sterling Ball
Steve Earle
Steve Miller (Fly By Night)
Steve Palazzo (Homefire)
Steven Sheehan
Susan Graham-White (Banana Slug String Band)
The Endpins
Teho Teardo
Tim Farrell
Tim Ware
Todd Taggart
Tom Ball
Tom Paxton
Tommy Comeaux
Tony King (Brooks And Dunn)
Tony Rice
Trey Hensley
Ueli von Allmen
Vance Gilbert
Vicki Randle (The Tonight Show Band)
Wade Garrett (Bluegrass Diamonds)
Walter Carvalho
Warren Haynes
Will Ackerman
William Coulter
Wyatt Rice
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Last edited by rick-slo; 05-25-2010 at 10:29 PM.
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  #40  
Old 05-25-2010, 10:29 PM
kohara kohara is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
A partial list of guitarist guitar players (some Grammy winners and nominees in here also)
Collings
Pete Huttlinger, Tyler Grant, Josh Hungate, Brad Davis, Kenny and Amanda Smith, Jim Lauderdale, Tim O'Brien, Chris Hillman, Herb Peterson, Mark Cosgrove, Steve Kaufman, James Nash, Chris Newman, Cody Kilby, Keith Sewell, Rich Brotherton, David Doucet
Santa Cruz
Alex Beaton
Alex Beckman
Alex Brumel
Alex Burns
Amy Fox
Andre Marchand
Andrew Jackson
Arlen Roth
Arturo Fiesta Circo
Barbara Higbie (Windham Hill)
Bart Allmand
Ben Harper
Betsy Rose
Bill Frisell
Bill Furner
Bill Nershi (String Cheese Incident)
Bob Brozman
Bob Carlin
Booie Beach (Lonesome Standard Time)
Brad Davis (Forrester Sisters)
Brad Pitt
Brian May
Bruce Johnson (Laurel Canyon Ramblers)
Bruce Molsky
Bubba Cloud jr.
Caren Armstrong
Carol McComb
Cathy Fink
Chelsea Constable
Cher
Chris Hillman
Chris Robinson
Christoph Scheffler
Colin Hay (Men At Work)
Courtney Patty
Curt Coffield
Dag Ingebrigtsen
Dan & Leland
Dan Ar Braz
Dan Tyminski
Dan Vickery (Counting Crows)
Dana Hess
Danny Heines (Shadowfax)
Darol Anger
Dave Keuning (The Killers)
Dave Matthews
David Crosby
David Grier
David Templeton
David Thiele
David Wilson
Dennis Robbins
Dick Hardwick
Dickey Betts
Doc Watson
Don Chapman
Don Cook
Don Edwards
Doug Sauter & Joshua Strodtman (Blueprintmusic)
Duck Baker
Dudley Murphy (Radio Flyer)
Ed Littlefield Jr.
Ed Pettersen
Ed Stankewick AKA "Mr. S"
Ellis Paul
Elvis Costello
Enrique Coria (David Grisman Quintet)
Eric Clapton
Eric Skye
Frank Montgomery
Gary Burnette
Gary Moore
Gary Talley
George Kuo
Gillian Welch
Glen Frey (Eagles)
Greg Merkle
Gypsy Soul - Roman Morykit
Hans York
Harry West
Hazel Wrigley
Henry Kaiser
Herb Pederson
Hoku Zuttermeister
Howard Yearwood
Hugh Williams (Lionel Ritchie)
Ilse DeLange
J.J. McGeehan
Jack Black
James Nash (the Waybacks)
Janis Ian
Jason Mozersky
Jeannie West
Jed Marum
Jeff Barbra
Jeff Tweedy (Wilco)
Jill Khovy
Jill Knight
Jimmy Buffett
Joan Baez
Joe Reyes
Joe Weed
Joey Miskulin
John Denver
John Hawes
John Mayer
John McCutcheon
John Paul Walters
John Wilcox (Marley's Ghost)
Johnny Cash
Johnny Mack
Jonathan Maness
Julian Lage
Kenny Loggins
Kenny Sultan
Kent Blazy
Kevin Kastning
Kim Forrester (Forrester Sisters)
Kristin Andreassen (Uncle Earl)
Lani Nash
Larry Graff (Banana Slug String Band)
Laurence Juber (Paul McCartney & Wings)
Ledward Kaapana
Maarten Decombel
Manuel Auteri
Marc Copely
Marcy Marxer
Mark Casstevens
Mark Karan (Bob Weir and Ratdog)
Martha Schuyler Thompson
Martin Taylor
Martyn Joseph
Matt Malley (Counting Crows)
Matt Nolen
Max Fisher
Michael Hearne
Michael Ronstadt (Santa Cruz River Band)
Mike Jones
Mike Severs
Milow
Mira Sorvino
Nancy Blake
Nat Keefe (Hot Buttered Rum)
Neal Hellman
Neil Hogan
Nick Charles
Nils Tuxen
Nokie Edwards (The Ventures)
Norman Blake
Otis Taylor
Paolo Saporiti
Pat Flynn
Patti Smith
Pedro Arévalo
Perry Sellars
Peter Blood
Peter Kaukonen
Priscilla Herdman
Rex Goh
Richard Bennett
Richard Julian
Rick Carter (Rollin In the Hay)
Robert Plant
Roger Reed (Laurel Canyon Ramblers)
Roman Morykit (Gypsy Soul)
Ron Block
Ron Loo
Rory Bourke
Ross Turner
Russ Barenberg
Ruthie Foster
Ruud Houweling (Cloudmachine)
Sarah Pirkle
Scott Coney
Scott Law
Sergio Lara
Simon Nicol (Fairport Convention)
Skip Ewing
Small Town Poets
SONiA (Disappear Fear)
Sterling Ball
Steve Earle
Steve Miller (Fly By Night)
Steve Palazzo (Homefire)
Steven Sheehan
Susan Graham-White (Banana Slug String Band)
The Endpins
Teho Teardo
Tim Farrell
Tim Ware
Todd Taggart
Tom Ball
Tom Paxton
Tommy Comeaux
Tony King (Brooks And Dunn)
Tony Rice
Trey Hensley
Ueli von Allmen
Vance Gilbert
Vicki Randle (The Tonight Show Band)
Wade Garrett (Bluegrass Diamonds)
Walter Carvalho
Warren Haynes
Will Ackerman
William Coulter
Wyatt Rice



Joan Baez, Dickey Betts, Norman Blake, Bob Brozman, Jimmy Buffett, Johnny Cash, Don Chapman, Eric Clapton, Elvis Costello, David Crosby, Steve Earle, Glen Frey, Bill Frisell, Colin Hay, Janis Ian, Dave Matthews, Brian May, Robert Plant, Jeff Tweedy
Nice list... I'll give you Steve Earle (although he has a Martin Signature Model, along with Joan Baez), but I can't say that I've noticed the others. Janis Ian I heard about, although she went back to her old D-18, I'm told. Did you actually look at that list after you wrote it? I've never heard of most of them and the others play Martins or Gibsons... or in the case of Glen Frey, a Takamine (go figure... him and Bruce Springsteen and Kenny Chesney... not exactly guitarists).

Robert Plant... are you serious?
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  #41  
Old 05-25-2010, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kohara View Post
Why do no major artists, absolutely none (besides Lyle Lovett) play Collings or Santa Cruz? There's gotta be a reason for that???
No disrespect intended, but the reason is simply that you haven't been paying attention. I mean Tony Rice plays a SCGC when the Martin is in the shop, or he doesn't want to deal with the hassle. Adam Aijala plays a Collings, and he probably plays acoustic guitar in front of more people every year than just about anybody on the planet. And let's not forget that we recently learned that Conan O'Brien rocks a Collings. I mean, c,mon, how big do you want?
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  #42  
Old 05-25-2010, 10:47 PM
kohara kohara is offline
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Originally Posted by warfrat73 View Post
No disrespect intended, but the reason is simply that you haven't been paying attention. I mean Tony Rice plays a SCGC when the Martin is in the shop, or he doesn't want to deal with the hassle. Adam Aijala plays a Collings, and he probably plays acoustic guitar in front of more people every year than just about anybody on the planet. And let's not forget that we recently learned that Conan O'Brien rocks a Collings. I mean, c,mon, how big do you want?
Always seen Tony playing a Martin when it really matters... never seen Conan playing anything other than a Gibson... never heard of Adam Aijala, but I'm only one person on the planet, after all...

I do pay attention... very closely. I'm starting to think the boutiques are for the folk that want to be able to tell people they own one...

Prove me wrong.
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  #43  
Old 05-25-2010, 10:50 PM
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Way to start a flame war, dude. Do your own research.
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  #44  
Old 05-25-2010, 11:39 PM
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[QUOTE=warfrat73;2236612]Way to start a flame war, dude. Do your own research.[/QU

Have done.
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  #45  
Old 05-26-2010, 04:49 AM
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I apologize for fanning the flames, I was tired and cranky.

But, your original point wasn't that "nobody plays them as their ONLY guitar," it was that "nobody, not one single major artist (except Lyle Lovett) plays them."

This is clearly not true, demonstrably so. Yes, a lot famous people that play Collings and SCGC play other stuff as well, but then again so do most people on this forum that own one or the other.

I could post image after image to prove this, but I've got better things to do.
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Bourgeois DR-A / Bowerman "Working Man's" OM / Martin Custom D-18 (adi & flame) / Martin OM-21 / Northwood M70 MJ / 1970s Sigma DR-7 / Eastman E6D / Flatiron Signature A5 / Silverangel Econo A
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