Selling via AGF, Allow Returns?!

#Cruncher · #1 09-14-2011, 08:44 AM

Okay, I just sold a guitar today thru AGF's classified. Do I need to give a percentage of the sales proceeds to AGF?

...just kidding

My real question is, what if the buyer decides he doesn't like it upon playing for a day or two? I've never sold anything here before and don't know if there exists even a generally accepted practice between buyers and sellers. If there are any lawyers, that'd be great. I am just wondering how long I should give the buyer to "test" the guitar? Or should all of the specific terms have been agreed upon at the time of sales transaction?

rlouie · #2 09-14-2011, 08:49 AM

yea, this should have been discussed way before you sold and shipped the guitar!!

L20A · #3 09-14-2011, 08:50 AM

That is between the buyer and seller.
My practice is that if the buyer doesn't want the guitar after 3 days, return it to me.
The buyer pays the shipping cost plus insurance.

cotten · #4 09-14-2011, 08:58 AM

The AGF doesn't get involved. We provide a point of contact, much like a bulletin board outside a grocery store entrance, that's all. Here, from the sticky at the top of our Classifieds, are our Classifieds Rules.

Quote:

Classified Rules - Please Read Before Posting

All buying, selling or trading on the AGF should be within our Classifieds, and not included in posts outside Classifieds. The one exception is that links to an ad in our Classified are allowed in a signature.

AGF Classifieds are offered as a service, a mere point of contact. The AGF does not get involved in any way with private deals that result from those contacts. In light of this, feedback, whether positive or negative, is not welcome. Please use appropriate caution as you negotiate a sale or trade.

1. You must be a Charter Member to post a classified ad.

2. Classifieds are for the sale or trade of personally owned musical instruments and music related items only - selling items for others is not permitted.

3. Asking price or trade value must be posted.

4. While pictures or a link to pictures are recommended, they are not required.

5. All negotiation should be private. This means no public debate over pricing.

6. Dealers and commercial resellers are not allowed to post in the Classifieds. AGF Sponsors, please use the Marketplace for your For Sale items. Click here for Sponsorship information.

Note: Happily, our Classifieds is a busy place, and this a very good thing for everyone involved. However, if we are not careful with our "bumping" our thread back to the top, it can seem that we are rudely elbowing the threads of others aside, even if that is not our intent. We respectfully request that a thread not be bumped more than once per 24 hours, though this does not mean that an Original Poster should not respond to questions or comments in his or her thread. The point is to be courteous of others, and as always on the AGF, "Be nice."

Individual members often have their own expectations on the "right" way to handle buying and selling, but not everyone's is the same. That's why it is always best for both parties to have a clear understanding, a contract if you will, before a deal is agreed to.

Trying to change the terms after the fact is a recipe for disagreement at best.

Yes, Cruncher, if you would like to donate part of your sale's proceeds to the AGF, I'm sure it would be accepted and appreciated. It is not, however, required. That a Classifieds thread originator be a Charter Member is all we ask.

cotten

blaren · #5 09-14-2011, 10:34 AM

I generally have a NO RETURNS policy. When I sell on eBay at least. I'm not a dealer..just a guy. When I sell an item it's usually old. Often old used or NOS tubes, capacitors, the odd guitar or amp. They work when I ship them (I have over 300 transactions and 100% positive feedback).

If I sell say a '73 50w Marshall head..it's old and fragile. Who knows if it's gonna work next time I plug it in (I ALWAYS bring a spare amp..spare EVERYTHING to gigs). It isn't like someone's gonna say...yeah it turns out that I don't like the Marshall tone. TOO BAD!! I'm not a store. You should have tried-out some Marshalls before you bought it.
If it gets damaged in shipping that's a different story. That's what insurance is for but yeah..if you don't LIKE an item you bought from me, you shouldnt have bought it. Go re-sell it.

But..I am honest and don't sell broken or mis-described items. Someone buys a guitar from me they better not expect a grace period where they can return it if they don't LIKE it. that isnt my fault...or problem.

It isnt fun though when you buy ..say..a Strat that has a busted trussrod or something. Something the seller knew but didn't disclose.
I am not that guy though so when I sell something..ALL SALES ARE FINAL!!

#Cruncher · #6 09-14-2011, 10:38 AM

I regret giving the buyer couple of days to "test" it. What the heck was I thinking? I can't do anything with the money that I got because he might come back and say I don't like this. Well, I don't want to be a jerk but I guess I have to live up to my word, even though I think it was a mistake. "SIGH"

Ilovetaylors · #7 09-14-2011, 10:41 AM

usually all sales are final. Unless you agreed before the sale that there is a "test phase" .

If there are any damages, or if the seller gave a wrong description than thats a different story.

also the buyer would have to pick up all the shipping prices both ways!!!

HudsDad · #8 09-14-2011, 10:44 AM

When I sell anything via online forums, I always offer a 72 hour return option for any reason. If they just don't like it, then the buyer pays for return shipping. If it's not as I described, then I'll gladly pay for the return shipping.

I'm not a retailer, but I want the buyer to be happy with the transaction.

Andromeda · #9 09-14-2011, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #Cruncher

I regret giving the buyer couple of days to "test" it. What the heck was I thinking? I can't do anything with the money that I got because he might come back and say I don't like this. Well, I don't want to be a jerk but I guess I have to live up to my word, even though I think it was a mistake. "SIGH"

I have learned some hard lessons. Unless you state specifically that there are no returns there is always a chance a buyer will not like the item and want to return it. So I have learned that if I do not state there are no returns then I do not touch the money until the buyer lets me know they are satisfied

#Cruncher · #10 09-14-2011, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andromeda

I have learned some hard lessons. Unless you state specifically that there are no returns there is always a chance a buyer will not like the item and want to return it. So I have learned that if I do not state there are no returns then I do not touch the money until the buyer lets me know they are satisfied

Yeah, I ain't touching that money 'til the buyer says all is well. In the end it is highly unlikely that he will end up returning it, but even 1% chance of it happening is keeping me from touching that pile of money. It has been talking to me in my dreams...I think it even sends me PMs. LOL

blaren · #11 09-14-2011, 12:44 PM

On lower $ items most people don't return anyway. A lot of companies got rich banking on that fact...like those tv ads. Buy one get one free..just wait..you also get...but that's not ALL...PLUS you also get...and then DOUBLE everything.

Popiel's pocket fisherman was a hunk of junk but probably came with a lifetime warranty. You can sell absolute garbage and offer a lifetime warranty. The fact is that MOST people will be too lazy, forgetful, cheap ..to return anything.

Who's gonna return a two dollar set of nailclippers..even if they arrive broken? Not many people.

But yeah...on big ticket items..or even small items...personally I can't do returns. I can't HOLD ON to money that well lol, and when you start accepting returns on things like guitars...after 72 hours of some belt buckle wearing, bedazzled covered shirts and zippers all over the place having person "handles" the guitar for 72 hours it WILL come back scratched. Now that NEW guitar is USED. You can't resell it as new. You have also incurred fees..like paypal and eBay fees sometimes. You don't get that back. Packing materials are often non-reusable..more $$.

The buyer has things to think about also...they are going to be out the original shipping (and maybe tax, duty, brokerage fees, currency exchange fees) ..PLUS return shipping..and if it's from out of the country, I have to pay all those extra fees upon receiving the returned item. Usually they will want to keep the item even if it is not completely to their liking.

Buyers take that risk when buying online. They don't get to try out stuff first. If they want to try first they should go to a store with that item in stock. Of course the store will probably be asking more $ for the item..which is often WHY the buyer purchased online in the first place.
I have not always been 100% satisfied with items I received but have NEVER EVER returned an item. I've never even asked for a refund.

On the other hand...sellers want to keep their feedback rating and reputation spotless.
If I ship an item and it doesnt arrive, or arrives broken, I immediately send a replacement and a SASE or box in which the buyer can return the faulty item..ot the missing item if it ever arrives.
It's one thing to be an honest reputable seller who doesn't do returns...it's another to be a rip-off. Rip-offs don't last online. There is SO much competition.

Nope..when I sell something...NO RETURNS, NO REFUNDS, NO WARRANTY, NO GUARANTEES, NO EXCHANGE.
I put that in ALL my listings. In fact, I have a PSD21 listed here now and it says just that..NO RETURNS..NO NOTHING! ALL SALES FINAL!

When the $ arrives...it's yours!

Of course..that's just me though. I'm fair and honest and like I said...100% positive feedback!

Steely Glen · #12 09-14-2011, 01:04 PM

I have bought one guitar and sold two others on this forum, not to mention countless accessories. One thing I always do before buying or selling is to check out the person on the other end of the transaction. How long have they been an AGF member? Are they a Charter Memeber? What's their posting history like? Are they civil with people? Have they bought/sold before?

Also, I like to make personal contact over the phone if possible to talk about the deal and the conditions. That way, both sides have the details of the transaction out in the open.

Nothing is fool-proof, but following these steps hasn't failed me yet. Everyone I've dealt with here has been kind, considerate, and easy to work with. And I always try to go out of my way to ensure that they'd say the same of me.

Ilovetaylors · #13 09-14-2011, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Glen

I have bought one guitar and sold two others on this forum, not to mention countless accessories. One thing I always do before buying or selling is to check out the person on the other end of the transaction. How long have they been an AGF member? Are they a Charter Memeber? What's their posting history like? Are they civil with people? Have they bought/sold before?

Also, I like to make personal contact over the phone if possible to talk about the deal and the conditions. That way, both sides have the details of the transaction out in the open.

Nothing is fool-proof, but following these steps hasn't failed me yet. Everyone I've dealt with here has been kind, considerate, and easy to work with. And I always try to go out of my way to ensure that they'd say the same of me.

I agree on all points!!!!!! You have to do your homework.

gary0319 · #14 09-14-2011, 01:15 PM

I only agreed to a trial period on one guitar and the buyer said He didn't like it within 20 minutes of of recieveing it. Nothing wrong with it, just changed his mind........crud.

However the deal was made before hand that if he didn't like it he would pay shipping both ways, all paypal fees and $50 for my trouble. Cost him about $200 for that 20 minute trial on a less than $500 guitar. Not something I would have done.

I usually don't give (nor do I expect) a trial period. I do expect the guitar to be as described and no surprises, and I sell my instruments with the same "warranty".

Gary

Truman · #15 09-14-2011, 01:16 PM

Giving a person "a couple of days" to test shouldn't be a killer and I'm sure the propsective buyer appreciates it. May have been one of the reasons why he took a chance with your guitar.

I know other guitar forums have quite a few rules to follow in their B&S including a minimum test period but leaving it up to the two parties to mutually decide should work well too.