Guitar War

[JDW]

On the acustic guitar forum they often chuck off at Taylor owners. They appear to be a bunch of Martin devotees. Just today someone has sugested that Taylor guitars have a thin sound compared with Martins and that the Taylor neck is like an electric guitar action. This is the ultimate insult to compare a Taylor with an electic. Should we take this from a bunch of plywood strokers or do you have any comments I can pass on.

[swoodnj]

Well, I own several Taylors and one Martin. I like the Martin but not as much as the Taylors. I think you're just running into some Martin devotees who are lashing out because they know that Taylor is taking the acoustic guitar market by storm, and they feel threatened. I've always found the best way to respond to folks like that is to not respond at all; eventually they'll crawl back under the rock they came from.

maybe they are galded cause their high dollar martins cant put the sound out like them 'UPSTARTS'over at taylor!i have heard some fine sounding martins so i,for one,wouldnt have a problem owning a nice sounding martin!but for the cash i spent..it was taylor all the way!so maybe they are just lashing out cause they are stuck with their martins...lol...wish i was 'stuck' with a martin ha ha.seriously i like em all,no need to DIS one or the other..why thats just plain ole IGNERT!lol...probably them uptight city folk any ways..lol

[JW]

Well I just jump in this one. I own a Martin D-45 and it is an older one. It is a great guitar and worth a great deal in monatary value. BUT if I had to pick between it and My K14C The taylor would be the winner. I havent been playing taylors long but I do know a great guitar when I play it. Taylors are built differant and more machines are used. Many people are scared of change and think that every facet of the guitar should be hand carved hand cut hand sanded and glued. Some people are stuck in that way of thinking. I play what sounds good. I do play MANY differant brands including electric guitars. I find that there are more differance's in the electric necks than any acustic. The one thing I find attractive about the taylors is the necks. And if some one compares it to a stratocaster they are pretty close. To me thats not a bad thing. I play mostly les paul or les paul style(heritage and a 60 les paul) but my on heritage guitars that I gig I have the neck modified to feel like a strat and yes the taylor does feel similar. My K14C does have a little fatter neck than the rest of my taylors and does feel a little like my 60 les paul but still slides like my strat. So to make that comparision is not a bad thing the way I see it. Its just that some people cant accept change. People ask me when I play why dont I play a real les paul. Because they dont sound as good anymore and the heritage sounds better to me. Some people are hung up on a name not the quality of the guitar. Some dont like the taylors because they have bolt on necks, my stratocaster has a bolt on neck and its a great guitar as well. I think there are many great guitars out there,to many in fact to close your mind to one brand. I own a epiphone joe pass. Its a great guitar and so what if it only cost me 500 dollars new. it came out of korea but it still plays well.MARTIN The neck on my martin? about the same as my 600 dollar Takamine, The sound? about the same as my 910B(very good).The fit and finish? (nice).Playability?(my 310K feels better). I just find that some people have headstock hypnosis. You take a good D-28 and take the name off and put some other off brand name on it and The average die hard Martin player would toss it like 5 day old bread. I guess its all in your mind if your closed off. I recently bought a 910B. It is the best looking guitar I own. I paid a BIG price because it was a special order. Ive come to the conclusion it wasnt worth the money BUT it may change in time. But of the 5 taylors I own now its the only one Im not 100% satisfied with. Why am I not 100% satified with the 910? Because my Taylor 310K sounds almost identical(150% satisfied) and my K14C sounds better. The 910 cost almost 4 times as much as my 310K and its hard to tell them apart(says a lot for the 310) and the K14C cost 1K less and sounds better. The good point here is its a dollar issue not a quality issue.A gutiar is all about the sound it makes not who made it or how much it cost. My Martin is a great guitar with a great sound and very well built but so are my taylors as well as just about everyone of my axe's. Sometimes we must close our eyes and open our minds and our ears to see the real beauty. JW

[J.R. Rogers]

Sound is always subjective. As with anything, certain guitars are going to have their loyalists and critics. I'm not interested in entertaining any kind of "war of the wood" between Martin and Taylor guys. I would encourage members of this board to not participate in any nonsense like that on any board. When all is said and done, guitars are just tools to create music. It's not worth fighting over, and certainly not worth having bad feelings toward one another.

The best defense against people who like to bash Taylor guitars is to chuckle quietly to yourself, completely happy with your choice of guitar, and happy that a person who feels the need to degrade someone else's musical tools doesn't own a Taylor. Then simply move on to the next message.

J.R.

[jdpresto]

Originally posted by J.R. Rogers:
. I would encourage members of this board to not participate in any nonsense like that on any board. It's not worth fighting over, and certainly not worth having bad feelings toward one another.

J.R.

J.R.,

I couldn't agree more. I would hate to see this forum overrun with arguments and Martin vs. Taylor (or any brand for that matter).

That is part of what has made this discussion board so attractive to me. Friendly chat about Taylors, guitars, music, songs, etc... and none of the rhetoric and potshots you get on the other discussion groups.

Jeff



[This message has been edited by jdpresto (edited 01-22-2001).]

[GRW3]

Martin makes great guitars and, unlike another legendary maker G****n, does not spend it's corporate time or energy badmouthing other manufacturers.

For some Martin adherents this seems to be like a religious issue. Not identifying Martin as the epitome of guitars becomes heresy.

If you think they only say harsh things about Taylor you should see what they say about Martin. It seems that Martin's innovative efforts are as big an afront to them as not trying to copy Martin.

While I am not sure I would ever buy a laminate guitar or a guitar with an aluminum soundboard, I do admire their ingenuity. I see Martin's laminate guitars, like Big Baby Taylor's, as an attempt to satisfy the demands of guitar players who cannot afford solid wood guitars with American made guitars. Who can reasonably fault that?

------------------
George Wilson

[Noflatpick]

Well, I like my 615 better than any guitar I've ever played, but that doesn't mean I don't lust after JW's D-45. I'd like to have about 50 acoustics in different brands, models, etc.

But I even like my 20 year-old, 500 buck Ibanez, so what the hell do I know?

[tone]

This subject of guitar wars is very amuzing to me. I own both a Martin and a Taylor. And, I appreciate each for different reasons. They fill different needs and do it very well. Truth is, there are Martins that blow away some Taylors and the opposite is equally true. I would pick my Martin D-18 over all Taylor 510 's (both mahogany dreads) every day of the week. Does that mean I like Martins better in general? No! Also, for it's purpose, there isn't a Martin that could touch my Taylor 814ce. Both companies make very nice guitars that suit a variety of purposes and tastes. Personally, I think Taylor has overall consistency in it's corner.

J.R., while I agree with you that fighting over our instruments is pointless and leads to bad feelings towards one another, I have this to say. I think that many guitar owners (whatever brand) tend to be insecure about their choice in instruments. And, whenever someone challenges their security with "My brand is better than yours" a voice inside whispers "what if it's true?". My point is this: Don't look for and encourage arguments on brand, but don't run if you encounter one. Feel confident in your choice of instruments. Someone else's opinion of your guitar doesn't change the reason you purchased it. Does it? Hey, let the other guy get upset while you listen to his ranting and raving. But, DON'T LET HIM GET INSIDE YOUR HEAD. You have chosen a Taylor for a reason and no one can take that from you except yourself.

[GRW3]

My thought is always, "Please, tell me what you like about your guitar not what is wrong with mine."

Dealers this is especially true. Just because you don't sell Taylor don't assume we wouldn't buy a guitar from you. Please refrain from pummeling our choice in instruments.

Point in fact, I was ready to take one of my Taylors to a local dealer, with whom I've done business with in the past, who has proven luthier skills to have a bone nut and saddle installed.

When he told me that "Taylors aren't the guitars they used to be" and other things I decided to put it off until I could find someone else.

How much better it would have been for him to have just said "Your Taylors are good guitars but before you move up to the next level be sure and check out my line of Santa Cruz guitars."

------------------
George Wilson

[JDW]

Originally posted by J.R. Rogers:
. I would encourage members of this board to not participate in any nonsense like that on any board. It's not worth fighting over, and certainly not worth having bad feelings toward one another.
J.R.

thanks point taken. It was just for a little fun not a real war. I own a Martin M38 and Taylor 712. They are both different and both great guitars. On a camera forum I sometimes visit the Nikon owners are 'at war' with Canon owners and I split my sides with laughter as each takes the micky out of the other... it's all in fun.
regards

[JW]

Originally posted by J.R. Rogers:
Sound is always subjective. As with anything, certain guitars are going to have their loyalists and critics. I'm not interested in entertaining any kind of "war of the wood" between Martin and Taylor guys. I would encourage members of this board to not participate in any nonsense like that on any board. When all is said and done, guitars are just tools to create music. It's not worth fighting over, and certainly not worth having bad feelings toward one another.

The best defense against people who like to bash Taylor guitars is to chuckle quietly to yourself, completely happy with your choice of guitar, and happy that a person who feels the need to degrade someone else's musical tools doesn't own a Taylor. Then simply move on to the next message.

J.R.

I dont think anyone here has said a bad thing about any other guitar in this thread. So why heed a warning when its not a problem here. I think the general conclusion here is that both Taylor and Martin make fine guitars as well as others. Sometimes I feel like playing the Martin sometime I feel like playing my old Harmony. Unlike the board this came from everybody here seems to be civil and agrees that Taylor isnt the only well made guitar but it seems to be a favorite among most. But to dictate what you should or should not say is up to the person making the statement. As long it is not offensive or vulgar I say let them speak. When I cant hear an honest opinion wheather good or bad I am at the wrong place. There are many very nice mellow people on this board and the common denominator is Taylor guitars. To encorage people not to speak their mind about a paticular subject concerning guitars is like saying You can talk but only use my words. Its very civil to me. I like em all. JW

[J.R. Rogers]

Originally posted by JW:
Unlike the board this came from everybody here seems to be civil and agrees that Taylor isnt the only well made guitar but it seems to be a favorite among most. But to dictate what you should or should not say is up to the person making the statement. As long it is not offensive or vulgar I say let them speak. When I cant hear an honest opinion wheather good or bad I am at the wrong place. There are many very nice mellow people on this board and the common denominator is Taylor guitars. To encorage people not to speak their mind about a paticular subject concerning guitars is like saying You can talk but only use my words. Its very civil to me. I like em all. JW

Some people feel the need to come into a forum dedicated to a certain guitar, and start flamethrowing, because it's not their choice of guitar, or they have animosity towards the company for one reason or another. People who do this do not belong in the Taylor Forum and will be dealt with accordingly. That's something for the other boards if they choose to tolerate it. There are people who genuinely love the fight, and feed on it. If they are here, they are in the wrong place.

JW, unfortunately it's the nature of people who share a certain opinion about a particular brand of product to react strongly when someone who obviously doesn't share that same opinion, openly voices their dislike using strong language. When someone makes a strong assertion that 99% of the public doesn't agree with, they're going to catch some flack. For this reason, discussions that turn ugly are simply not tolerated here and will be removed.

Rule #1 of the Taylor Forum has always been "play nice". I'm not saying that everyone has to agree 100% of the time. What kind of a boring place would this be if that were the case? I'm saying that you should always bear the utmost respect and civility towards your fellow forum members. Understand that they may not feel the same way that you do, and word your posts accordingly.

Further, I've stated many times before that this is a place for people who like Taylor guitars. If people don't fall into that category, there's just no point in them being here. I don't personally care for Takamine guitars - and I don't participate in their forums (if they have any). There's just no point. My walking into a Takamine forum and expressing my dislike for the guitars, and my love for Taylor guitars, will unleash a flood of animosity. What point would that serve? What good would that do?

I hope that I've expressed myself and my views as moderator of this forum, as plainly as possible. I recognize that not everyone may agree with me. That's OK. But at the Taylor Forum, anger, hate, and animosity are conspicuously absent, and I'm bent on keeping it that way. I'd like this to be a peaceful friendly place that people will enjoy coming to, everyday.

J.R. Rogers
Administrator

"Taylors are built differant and more machines are used. Many people are scared of change and think that every facet of the guitar should be hand carved hand cut hand sanded and glued."

I've toured both Taylor and Martin factories and from what I saw, Martin seems to use more machines and assembly line manufacturing techniques than Taylor. I like Martins (I wouldn't mind having one of those gaudy new D-50s ) but my tastes seem to run more to Taylors and Larrivees.

hey ,jr ,i didnt really even say nuttin bad but im sorry ...i dont know for what???but i might say something in the future so im 1 APOLOGY ahead....you know..in case i get INSENSITIVE....lol...really,i like this place cuz its nice...and it seems that everyone hear likes ALL guitars....even bad ones look good stuck up over the bar with the old banjo thats only got 1 string and toss in them old harmonicas...and you got a lil music display!!that takamine never looked so good!!lol....see that was nice ...and i never said 1 bad thing about the takamine!pull a couple strings off and throw on the banjo...it'll look better,and besides,its only a takamine.....what?.....what????...sorry!i might have been a little insensitive there...but...thats TWO apologies for one insensivity!!!man thats a good deal anywhere..lol