A very specific left hand pain question

[jaymarsch]

I am in my mid 60's and discovered last year that I was putting a lot of stress on my hands as a result of doing multiple things over time. Golfing, playing guitar, computer work, crafts projects - all these things by themselves do not seem terribly stressful but if I do them every day or some several times a week. Well, my hands aren't getting a lot of down time. It could be that you tweaked something climbing and then the regular playing of the guitar made it worse. In any event, I have found that rest is the best and then see a professional if it persists.

I have decided to lay off the golf and cut back on non-work related computer work and be mindful when I play guitar - take breaks and stretch. My hand issues have mostly gone away. Hope this helps.

Best of luck to you.
Jayne

[tdrake]

Originally Posted by nkatsonis

Works for you? I'd say not, if your left hand technique causes the pain in your hand. Just a thought.

Hah, great point.

If indeed that is the cause.

But, yeah, point taken!

[tdrake]

Originally Posted by jaymarsch

I am in my mid 60's and discovered last year that I was putting a lot of stress on my hands as a result of doing multiple things over time. Golfing, playing guitar, computer work, crafts projects - all these things by themselves do not seem terribly stressful but if I do them every day or some several times a week. Well, my hands aren't getting a lot of down time. It could be that you tweaked something climbing and then the regular playing of the guitar made it worse. In any event, I have found that rest is the best and then see a professional if it persists.

I have decided to lay off the golf and cut back on non-work related computer work and be mindful when I play guitar - take breaks and stretch. My hand issues have mostly gone away. Hope this helps.

Best of luck to you.
Jayne

Yes, I think and hope you are right.

Every time I've seen a specialist for some chronic problem or injury -- torn meniscus from biking, torn rotator cuff from bench pressing -- relatively simple stretches and resting has worked.

But it's dang hard when it's the guitar!

[amyFB]

did you try changing the position of the guitar in several directions:

if you use a strap, set it higher , or lower, than usual by an inch or more at a time to see if it makes a difference.

if you don't use a strap, try shifting it to rest on the 'other' leg than you currently do.

do you play while seated on a couch or other low seat?
try a straight back no-arm kitchen chair, or a bar stool with a foot rest.

I tend to get the best success in assorted muscle pain relief by adjusting the strap setting.
and i will stand to play before I'll slouch on a couch or other low seat.

good luck

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by nkatsonis

Works for you? I'd say not, if your left hand technique causes the pain in your hand. Just a thought.

Bingo.

It could also be transference from elsewhere, related to posture.

There is a world-renowned doctor nearby who specializes in musician's injuries. He works with musicians from around the world to help them eliminate various aches and pains they encounter during their playing. Much of it is postural and much of the pain they experience is caused by a problem elsewhere (e.g. hand pain caused by issues with the neck or shoulder).

In the OP's case, seems likely that it is the contact between the edge of the neck and the point in the palm that hurts. Humans are, generally, able to adapt: there are numerous techniques that can produce similar results. Don't get hung-up on identifying the sounds you make with only one possible way of holding the guitar (left hand technique) to make them. Look at Django Reinhardt and what he was able to do by using what technique he physically could, with only two functional fingers on his left hand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQhTpgicdx4

Originally Posted by murrmac123

Two of the all-time great guitar virtuosi there, to be sure . . .

I'm assuming that is tongue-in-cheek. All-time great singer/song-writers/entertainers, sure; guitar virtuosi, not so much.

[guit3090]

I have had the exact same symptoms, I was playing a Fender DG-20S which had a u shaped neck. I tried lighter strings. I was told I had carpal tunnel, and was given a Double carpal tunnel release which made the the symptoms worse. The hand Dr. told me I was lying when I said it was worse. Finally went to another Hand specialist. After, several tests, I was told that I had cervical stenosis, which is a pinched nerve in my neck, which was radiating to my hand. I gave up guitar for a couple of years, Then I bought a used Alvarez AD-60S, It had a real comfortable neck. Then I got an Alvarez RD-20S using extra light Elixir strings. This really helped, I still have an Alvarez ,their necks are like Taylors, they have a nice radius, Wish you the best, I haven't played in a while. I want to try a smaller bodied guitar next, It hurts reaching over A Dreadnought.

[Silver Fiddle]

Originally Posted by DDSM2004

The dime spot is right over the pulley for the tendon. I know because that is where they cut to correct my trigger finger a couple weeks ago. Are you experiencing locking on the index finger?

Could be a cyst on the tendon - had one of those below my ring finger and it cleared up by itself after about a year. Definitely see an orthopedic surgeon.

Yup...what he said. That's the same tendon that aggravates my trigger finger. If your fingers aren't locking up, and, or sticking now...they soon will.

[tdrake]

Originally Posted by guit3090

I have had the exact same symptoms, I was playing a Fender DG-20S which had a u shaped neck. I tried lighter strings. I was told I had carpal tunnel, and was given a Double carpal tunnel release which made the the symptoms worse. The hand Dr. told me I was lying when I said it was worse. Finally went to another Hand specialist. After, several tests, I was told that I had cervical stenosis, which is a pinched nerve in my neck, which was radiating to my hand. I gave up guitar for a couple of years, Then I bought a used Alvarez AD-60S, It had a real comfortable neck. Then I got an Alvarez RD-20S using extra light Elixir strings. This really helped, I still have an Alvarez ,their necks are like Taylors, they have a nice radius, Wish you the best, I haven't played in a while. I want to try a smaller bodied guitar next, It hurts reaching over A Dreadnought.

Wow, very interesting! Poking around in my neck the PT asked if I'd ever been in a car accident and injured it. A chiropractor years ago was also convinced I must have.

Hmmm....

And you point out why I'd like to avoid anyone who dabbles in knives!

td

[Mycroft]

I would suspect the rock climbing, as it puts a lot of stress on the finger ligaments.

Rest and slow stretching...

[tdrake]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

I would suspect the rock climbing, as it puts a lot of stress on the finger ligaments.

Rest and slow stretching...

Yep. I think this is the safest bet, and it's what the PT said. And, you know, it's what they always say and so far it nearly always works.

I've been thinking a lot about everyone's input, which I truly appreciate, and I do believe there is much merit in the argument to work on technique, especially in the implied criticism of my Johnny Cash/Elvis approach to the left hand. But I have an inquisitive mind, and I think were it as simple as technique:

1) It wouldn't have taken me over 30 years of guitar playing to develop this very, very localized and specific problem (I could be wrong about this, of course). And I gave up climbing for a long time due to tennis elbow, which is so common. That's gotta be taken as a variable as much as my hillbilly technique.

2) There wouldn't be so many classical guitarists and other well-trained classical instrument players so frequently suffering RSIs, right? While it is true that these people need to adjust their technique, it's not as simple as just not playing like Johnny Cash. They're trained to do it "right" and hold their guitars with the neck high and thumb oh so correctly...and *still* very, very frequently develop RSIs, just perhaps in different places (like the thumb).

Michael Jordan had to quit playing basketball when he was 40 because of the pain; is that because he played wrong?

Are y'all saying Johnny Cash shouldn't have played guitar the way he did...for 50 years? Seriously? Do we all have to be "virtuosos" to make music? Naw.

So, as these threads are as much about general ideas that interest us are as they are about my specific injury, I think it's worth pointing out that we don't know the cause of my injury, and the trained PT with 25 years of experience didn't know the cause, and we shouldn't assume that Johnny Cash simply did it wrong and that my style doesn't work for me because of this pain.

Did Johnny Cash experience more hand pain than Andres Segovia? Are thumb over guys more likely to be injured than classical players? Do we really know this? Maybe one of you do know the answer to this question, but let's not simply assume it.

Anyway, I don't mean to sound argumentative and I do appreciate the input. The PT and lots of online articles and y'all's input have presented some useful overall exercises and posture improvements, so thanks much for that.

But don't you ever, ever, disrespect Mr. Cash or Presley. Well, maybe Presley.

PS: received a "want to climb" text from my climbing partner as I typed this. Told her I'm down for the count.

[jpd]

Td.............this reminds me of a "patch" my wife deals with from having M.S. The pain is from raw nerve endings, and may not originate in that exact spot that you feel the pain at. It may lead to a nerve contact point from the spine........any back or neck and shoulder accidents?

[FrankB2]

My nephew bought a VW GTi a couple of months ago, and I told him to grab hold of the rear bumper and lift. I pulled as hard as I could, but he held back...a lot. I then told him to grab the back of my convertible and lift, saying that we used to lift small cars by the rear all the time in college. My arms hurt so bad 15 minutes later!!! After a few days, they were worse. I called my dad, and he told me not to even look at my guitar for at least two weeks. This was my beautiful new 2013 Taylor 514 FLTD, and I couldn't stop playing it. My arms got worse, and I sold it here at quite a loss.

Two weeks later, I bought a 12 fret Taylor, and I'm doing much better. I gave up classical guitar completely a couple of years ago, due to tendonitis in both arms. Proper technique with classical guitar can just as easily lead to injury as poor technique. Segovia was performing into his 80's, but the quality of his playing wasn't nearly as good.

Try alternating between ice and warm compresses. An orthopedic surgeon can take an X-ray, and probably give you an answer in minutes. Unless there's something really out of whack on the x-Ray, you can ask for a more conservative treatment. It just might work. Here's some heat therapy info:

EDIT: The Following Was NOT Written By Me....
What does heat therapy do?

Heat opens up blood vessels, which increases blood flow and supplies oxygen and nutrients to reduce pain in joints and relax sore muscles, ligaments, and tendons. The warmth also decreases muscle spasms and can increase range of motion. Applying superficial heat to your body can improve the flexibility of tendons and ligaments, reduce muscle spasms, and alleviate pain.

Heat Therapy
How is it applied?

Sources of heat can supply either dry or moist warmth. Dry heat sources may dry the skin. Moist heat may penetrate better. Heat can be applied by an electric or microwavable heating pad, hot water bottle, gel packs, or hot water baths. The heat should be warm, not too hot, and should be maintained at a consistent temperature, if possible. Ask your doctor or physical therapist which heat source would be best for you.

When do you use it?

Apply heat if you have stiff joints or chronic muscle and joint pain.

How can I use it safely?

Don’t apply it directly to skin. Instead, wrap the hot device in a thin towel.

Here are other tips:

Don’t apply heat for longer than 20 minutes, unless your doctor or physical therapist recommends longer.

Don’t use heat if there’s swelling. Use cold first, then heat.

Don’t use heat if you have poor circulation or diabetes.

Don’t use heat on an open wound or stitches.

Don’t lie down on a heating pad; you could fall asleep and burn your skin.

[Larry Pattis]

Too much actual medical/treatment advice here for my druthers.

You've got a significant problem.

Go find a specialist.

[FrankB2]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

Too much actual medical/treatment advice here for my druthers.

You've got a significant problem.

Go find a specialist.

Indeed! We need to fly someone out to Moscow, Idaho (or someone out of Moscow, Idaho). There are so many specialists within 20 minutes or less from where I live, it's difficult for me to imagine life without them. I went to "the" opthamologist on Monday. There were 5 opthamologists in the office, and I called for an appointment one hour before going.

[tdrake]

Originally Posted by FrankB2

Indeed! We need to fly someone out to Moscow, Idaho (or someone out of Moscow, Idaho). There are so many specialists within 20 minutes or less from where I live, it's difficult for me to imagine life without them. I went to "the" opthamologist on Monday. There were 5 opthamologists in the office, and I called for an appointment one hour before going.

Ha, yeah. The benefits of living nowhere are still pretty awesome...unless ye want to try out a new guitar or see a GP. (My wife's a cancer survivor and her regional care has been awesome tho, so it's all good.)

Anyway, you don't need to read this article, but the title says it all:

"Idaho’s doctor shortage threatens to worsen"

"BOISE - Not only does Idaho rank 49th in the nation for its number of doctors per capita, many of the state’s current doctors are expected to retire in the next few years, and the state, which has no medical school, is lagging on training new ones."

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/201...eatens-worsen/