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  #1  
Old 04-27-2017, 12:37 PM
emmsone emmsone is offline
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Default Gluing purfling to binding before bending. Which glue?

So as I'm still waiting for sides to arrive, i have some other tasks I can be looking into, one of which is preparing the bindings.
I had thought about not having a purfling line beneath the binding but i've changed my mind. As such I have separate binding and b/w purfling which (from what i've managed to dig up here in past posts) I should glue together before bending otherwise bending the purfling strip to fit 'on edge' would be extra tricky.

The question then becomes which glue? the few bits and pieces I managed to find on this subject said some people use Titebond and it seemed to work ok. There was a recommendation for Titebond 3 because its water resistance apparently helps, and a suggestion for CA glue. Thats pretty much all the details i've found. Other possible alternatives are Epoxy and LMI yellow instrument glue.

i currently have some Titebond 1. Titebond 3 is very very difficult to come by here in Switzerland, I also have some CA glue and epoxy.

It would be nice if like previously suggested Titebond 1 would work, but I thought one of the whole points of Titebond is that it releases again at relatively low temperatures for repair purposes? surely 200C+ on a bending iron would render that bond no longer tite?

I get the impression using Titebond or LMI yellow instrument glue would be the easiest way to glue the 2 together, because with CA glue everything would have to be much more accurate with the glue setting before you have a chance to adjust mistakes and being accurate with thin flimsy strips of wood doesnt seem that easy. Also i feel like it would be very easy to accidentally CA glue the whole strip to a bench. Same with Epoxy.

LMI say their glue is more heat resistant than Titebond, but their numbers say it releases around the 190-200F mark, thats about 70-80C, which isnt really that high a temperature when bending wood, so probably not really much of a gain over the 60C release temp of Titebond

How have you all done this process?

Your help as ever is always appreciated

David
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Old 04-27-2017, 01:29 PM
Halcyon/Tinker Halcyon/Tinker is offline
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Titebond original works fine. You need to layer up your binding in a sandwich, or patty, where the flat bottoms with purfling attached are back to back, or with the other top and back purflings that need to be bent in the middle. Then tape them tightly together and bend as a unit, or half and half for cutaways.

Any delaminating can be gently massaged with a clothes iron...
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Old 04-28-2017, 03:10 AM
dekutree64 dekutree64 is offline
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I use hot hide glue when adding side purflings to pre-cut binding strips. Apply glue to a few inches at a time, rub with your thumbs for 20 seconds or so, and repeat until done. Amazingly resistant to heat and water when bending.
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Old 04-28-2017, 08:27 AM
emmsone emmsone is offline
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Thanks guys.

Right now I have no idea where I could acquire hot hide glue from.

Unless I can think of another alternative in the meanwhile, I guess i'll just have to use titebond and hope for the best. I might have a bash at gluing these together on Sunday, otherwise perhaps early next week. I have a feeling i'll be using a LOT of masking tape while gluing!
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Old 04-28-2017, 08:55 AM
Halcyon/Tinker Halcyon/Tinker is offline
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Get a bag of 3/4" binder clips at the dollar store, and save yourself some frustration...
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Old 04-28-2017, 09:53 AM
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Bruce Sexauer Bruce Sexauer is offline
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I glue my side purflings on BEFORE I rip them. It is then a simple operation. My glue of choice is titebond type 2, which is many times more likely to hold when the heat is on than type 1. HHG is also very good as long as no water is introduced.
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Old 04-28-2017, 10:26 AM
redir redir is offline
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I do it the same way as Bruce but have always just used regular Titebond. I'll take a board of side binding material, say rosewood, that is 32 x 1/4 x 6 inches or so then glue sheets of veneer to that with Titebond in what ever pattern I want. Then just rip it to pieces.

If I need to glue up individual thin strips after the fact then I have used CA which is quick and easy.
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Old 04-28-2017, 10:36 AM
Halcyon/Tinker Halcyon/Tinker is offline
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Most of our bindings come from side offcuts already thicknessed. If you can do a slab to rip bindings from that is certainly the most expedient. However, if your bindings are already individual pieces, and titebond 1 is all you have, it can and does work just fine.

this is what the little binding bundles look like before bending...

these are the binder clips I was speaking of. You can see how there is a tiny bit of wenge purflings attached to the maple binding as an example. Works much better than 100 wee bits o' masking tape...
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Old 04-28-2017, 11:48 AM
Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
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LMI is being very optimistic about the heat resistance of their glue.

The most heat resistant member of the Titebond family is Titebond Original Extend.
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Old 04-28-2017, 12:15 PM
emmsone emmsone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcyon/Tinker View Post
Get a bag of 3/4" binder clips at the dollar store, and save yourself some frustration...
Good Thinking. I have some clothes pegs I used for attaching kerfed linings, but i'm not sure they'll do as good a job as those binder clips. I'll do some testing and see if they can actually grip, if not i'll either go shopping or use the masking tape


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer View Post
I glue my side purflings on BEFORE I rip them. It is then a simple operation. My glue of choice is titebond type 2, which is many times more likely to hold when the heat is on than type 1. HHG is also very good as long as no water is introduced.
Thanks Bruce, i'm using precut bindings, mostly because i'm still in the early stages of my building and in this case because i'm using Rocklite, I've already purchased them pre-cut. Incidentally, i'm not sure if I can actually acquire Rocklite in non-pre cut form
I'll have a look around for some Titebond 2, but when Titebond 1 is hard to find, Titebond 2 its probably even trickier


Quote:
Originally Posted by redir View Post
I do it the same way as Bruce but have always just used regular Titebond. I'll take a board of side binding material, say rosewood, that is 32 x 1/4 x 6 inches or so then glue sheets of veneer to that with Titebond in what ever pattern I want. Then just rip it to pieces.

If I need to glue up individual thin strips after the fact then I have used CA which is quick and easy.
Cool, this makes sense, but especially for rosewood, getting hold of pieces big enough to do this is probably not that easy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcyon/Tinker View Post
Most of our bindings come from side offcuts already thicknessed. If you can do a slab to rip bindings from that is certainly the most expedient. However, if your bindings are already individual pieces, and titebond 1 is all you have, it can and does work just fine.
Good to know. Thanks again!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Klepper View Post
LMI is being very optimistic about the heat resistance of their glue.

The most heat resistant member of the Titebond family is Titebond Original Extend.
Thanks Howard. That may be true but i wouldnt really class LMIs estimations as 'heat resistant' so its not really made much difference to my decision of whether I should acquire some specifically for this job
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  #11  
Old 04-30-2017, 04:46 AM
Quickstep192 Quickstep192 is offline
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I recently got some of LMII's glue just to try it. I was buying some other stuff from LMII and added the glue to the order. At first look, it seemed like most other wood glues, but when I used it, I was impressed by its initial tack and the way it dried. I don't know that I'd pay for shipping to Switzerland just to try it, but I was impressed by it.
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