Rosewood vs. Walnut B&S for Cedar Lowden

[Jimi2]

Well, it would certainly be interest to a/b two guitars by the same builder, with the same top wood; seems like that would go a long way toward settling the debate about b&s. Would also solve my specific dilemma if I could play an O23 with an O25. What I was at least able to do today was play that O25 at the Emporium again today; and man, it’s quite a guitar. The amount of bass is amazing; as a fan fret tuned down to open c or open b I think it would sound incredible unless it’s just too boomy. I kind of suspect it would work though, and I had no concerns with it being too dark or muddy - it’s still got that clear, airy Lowdenness. I talked to the staff there, and they suggested that if I liked that guitar, that rosewood would probably be the best bet. I forget exactly what they suggested Walnut would contribute, other than less bass. But I think I’m pretty much decided.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Jimi2

Well, it would certainly be interest to a/b two guitars by the same builder, with the same top wood; seems like that would go a long way toward settling the debate about b&s. Would also solve my specific dilemma if I could play an O23 with an O25. What I was at least able to do today was play that O25 at the Emporium again today; and man, it’s quite a guitar. The amount of bass is amazing; as a fan fret tuned down to open c or open b I think it would sound incredible unless it’s just too boomy. I kind of suspect it would work though, and I had no concerns with it being too dark or muddy - it’s still got that clear, airy Lowdenness. I talked to the staff there, and they suggested that if I liked that guitar, that rosewood would probably be the best bet. I forget exactly what they suggested Walnut would contribute, other than less bass. But I think I’m pretty much decided.

I'm sure you will enjoy either one. Lowden makes a fine guitar.

[RADJJD]

Originally Posted by TBman

I have 2 rosewood guitars (Pellerin and Avalon), a walnut (McIlroy) and a mohagany (Martin). They all sound different.

When I had 3 spruce/mohagany guitars - Larrivee, Gibson and Martin, they all sounded completely different. My two rosewood guitars - Pellerin and Avalon - completely different.

Now if you have two guitars of the same design, same builder, but different back and sides then I'm sure you would hear a difference, but I have never played any back to back to confirm.

People just get annoyed when told something that is contrary to their own truths, myself included.

The question of tone woods is the guitar owners version of "Does this dress make me look fat?" You have to watch how you answer

Yes, one of them will sound "different" when you get it home.

Robin Gibb wrote that the BeeGees practiced their harmony in Office building washrooms; said they sounded really good in there. Also stairwells.

I tried my cedar / mahogany in the washroom & it sounded great; not some much in the kitchen.

I took it down to the Ocean (Pacific) a couple blocks from home; I was shocked at how all that beautiful tone was lost in the wide open spaces. Same, guitar, same strings & tuning, same player, but totally different results.

Hope you enjoy whichever guitar you settle on, but I am guessing it will sound different in your den. Please advise if you so choose.

I'm a player, not a collector.

[Jimi2]

Originally Posted by RADJJD

Yes, one of them will sound "different" when you get it home.

Robin Gibb wrote that the BeeGees practiced their harmony in Office building washrooms; said they sounded really good in there. Also stairwells.

I tried my cedar / mahogany in the washroom & it sounded great; not some much in the kitchen.

I took it down to the Ocean (Pacific) a couple blocks from home; I was shocked at how all that beautiful tone was lost in the wide open spaces. Same, guitar, same strings & tuning, same player, but totally different results.

Hope you enjoy whichever guitar you settle on, but I am guessing it will sound different in your den. Please advise if you so choose.

I'm a player, not a collector.

Yeah. there are lots of variables to how sound is perceived. I like to sit outside and play on sunny days. but my guitars sound totally different with nothing for sound to bounce off of. The state of my strings, condition of my fingernails, etc. all make a huge impact too. Ive found that switching guitars in a playing session can impact perceptions as well; it’s like in photography when you’re sitting at a monitor editing - perceiving one image of a certain brightness or color impacts how you perceive the next image. I guess ears don’t physically adjust quite like eyes do, but I’ve found my response to a guitars tone is definitely to some extent variable.

[AH Acoustic]

I have owned identical built guitars with Walnut and Rosewood.

A note about any recordings: listen with good headphones or speakers if at all possible.

What I can from my ownership of Walnut and Rosewood (Spruce for mine):

1. Walnut -- In addition to others' comments on characteristics, here are my observations about Walnut in my case:

1. offers a transparent, distinct clarity to the strings (strong separation)
2. rewarding and revealing of advanced technique skills
3. responds dynamically and immediately to varying attack energy on the strings
4. highly focused -- can be a positive when playing delicately, potentially risk of listener fatigue with longer sessions / when playing with energy
5. strong, throaty bass response with medium-long sustain
6. offers a mystical tone with phosphor strings, with just a moderate overtone content
7. notes strike the ear with immediacy and punch, some might say 'brightness', but I would say it is the speed of response that I can most easily pick out
8. consider contacting Marc Beneteau also if you are contemplating a custom baritone (see video)

Here's a Walnut Marc Beneteau baritone showcasing our own Dustin Furlow's incredible original:

Also, a Lowden Baritone played by our own SuperB:

And a Lowden Walnut Baritone at SoundPure:

And a couple more:




2. Rosewood -- My observations about Rosewood in my case:

1. if going custom, consider all of the rosewood varieties that Lowden offers -- for example the species used in the Pierre Bensusan signature models like Honduran or Guatemalan, which are voiced for clarity and string balance, or Chechen, in addition to trying EIR
2. robust, yet smooth long sustaining low notes
3. enchanting sweetness
4. responds with a slight forgiveness to attack dynamics
5. relativey longer note sustain in mid range - notes linger
6. produces an overall slightly softer listening experience, even with trebles
7. rarely fatiguing in longer listening sessions
8. notes bloom into life
9. presence of overtones dependent on string selection

Here's a Rosewood baritone currently at Guitar Gallery which has some high quality recordings audio and video on their website (not affiliated):


Hope this helps -- enjoy the search!

All the best,

a.h.

[AH Acoustic]

Originally Posted by Jimi2

I’m looking into a fan fret Lowden for really low tunings - open c and even an open b minor tuning of my own[...]

Sounds fun

-a.h.

[Rosette]

Originally Posted by TBman

People just get annoyed when told something that is contrary to their own truths

True

Originally Posted by Jimi2

The amount of bass is amazing; as a fan fret tuned down to open c or open b I think it would sound incredible unless it’s just too boomy..

I hope you enjoy the guitar. I keep my O-25 in C tunings or DADGAD and think it sounds great.

[BluesKing777]

Originally Posted by Jimi2

Well, it would certainly be interest to a/b two guitars by the same builder, with the same top wood; seems like that would go a long way toward settling the debate about b&s. Would also solve my specific dilemma if I could play an O23 with an O25. What I was at least able to do today was play that O25 at the Emporium again today; and man, it’s quite a guitar. The amount of bass is amazing; as a fan fret tuned down to open c or open b I think it would sound incredible unless it’s just too boomy. I kind of suspect it would work though, and I had no concerns with it being too dark or muddy - it’s still got that clear, airy Lowdenness. I talked to the staff there, and they suggested that if I liked that guitar, that rosewood would probably be the best bet. I forget exactly what they suggested Walnut would contribute, other than less bass. But I think I’m pretty much decided.

Even though I own 3 Lowdens with various wood, I got to thinking......I have not played a Lowden rosewood/cedar!

Which is why I held back on my reply for a bit!

And the only suggestion I can give is the standard forum thing - buy one of each - rosewood and walnut!

Then let us know how you go

Being a contrary person it seems, I have an O22 cedar/mahogany; 1993 S35 Tasmanian blackwood/cedar and a 1993 LSE1 mahogany/sitka.........all very different but all have the Lowden sound poking out!


BluesKing777.

[RetiredFire]

I have a Lowden Cedar/Walnut S50 and it’s one of my favorites. It’s hard to describe the tone as Lowdens are so unique. But as a fingerstyle player, it’s just about perfect.

[Jimi2]

Originally Posted by BluesKing777

Even though I own 3 Lowdens with various wood, I got to thinking......I have not played a Lowden rosewood/cedar!

Which is why I held back on my reply for a bit!

And the only suggestion I can give is the standard forum thing - buy one of each - rosewood and walnut!

Then let us know how you go

Being a contrary person it seems, I have an O22 cedar/mahogany; 1993 S35 Tasmanian blackwood/cedar and a 1993 LSE1 mahogany/sitka.........all very different but all have the Lowden sound poking out!


BluesKing777.

Haha, that would be nice, but not in the cards any time soon!
The Music Emporium has an O22, and I checked it out the last time I went. I remember preferring the O25, but both were great guitars. I should check out the 22 again.

[Jimi2]

Originally Posted by AH Acoustic

I have owned identical built guitars with Walnut and Rosewood.

A note about any recordings: listen with good headphones or speakers if at all possible.

What I can from my ownership of Walnut and Rosewood (Spruce for mine):

1. Walnut -- In addition to others' comments on characteristics, here are my observations about Walnut in my case:

1. offers a transparent, distinct clarity to the strings (strong separation)
2. rewarding and revealing of advanced technique skills
3. responds dynamically and immediately to varying attack energy on the strings
4. highly focused -- can be a positive when playing delicately, potentially risk of listener fatigue with longer sessions / when playing with energy
5. strong, throaty bass response with medium-long sustain
6. offers a mystical tone with phosphor strings, with just a moderate overtone content
7. notes strike the ear with immediacy and punch, some might say 'brightness', but I would say it is the speed of response that I can most easily pick out
8. consider contacting Marc Beneteau also if you are contemplating a custom baritone (see video)

Here's a Walnut Marc Beneteau baritone showcasing our own Dustin Furlow's incredible original:

Also, a Lowden Baritone played by our own SuperB:

And a Lowden Walnut Baritone at SoundPure:

And a couple more:




2. Rosewood -- My observations about Rosewood in my case:

1. if going custom, consider all of the rosewood varieties that Lowden offers -- for example the species used in the Pierre Bensusan signature models like Honduran or Guatemalan, which are voiced for clarity and string balance, or Chechen, in addition to trying EIR
2. robust, yet smooth long sustaining low notes
3. enchanting sweetness
4. responds with a slight forgiveness to attack dynamics
5. relativey longer note sustain in mid range - notes linger
6. produces an overall slightly softer listening experience, even with trebles
7. rarely fatiguing in longer listening sessions
8. notes bloom into life
9. presence of overtones dependent on string selection

Here's a Rosewood baritone currently at Guitar Gallery which has some high quality recordings audio and video on their website (not affiliated):


Hope this helps -- enjoy the search!

All the best,

a.h.

Thanks so much! All the baritones in your video have me wondering how low I’ll be able to tune this thing. It’ll be about 26.75” bass scale, and I might put a .060 sixth string on there. I think it should handle down to B pretty nicely.