A dads observation on learning

[TheGITM]

Originally Posted by Sponserv

So many great responses to my original post. Thanks very much for taking the time.

My takeaway here is to just let my son find his own path. As long as he is happy and passionate about whatever he is into I will be grateful.

He just competed in Houston at the First Robotics World Championships. He is a GREAT kid. We love him so much and are very proud of him.

But point well taken.....I will just be there for him if he ever comes around with a greater interest in learning guitar.

Thanks again for everyone's insight.

Dude! Our HS robotics team also made it to Worlds! We went 5 years ago (when my son and I first got involved), and just made it back again this year. Of course, my son has since graduated, but the team continues...

We played on the Archimedes field and were the #4 alliance captains. Sadly, we lost to both the #1 and #2 alliances and that knocked us all the way out. The team did great, though, and the robot was really good this year.

[Pickcity]

Let your son decide. That’s what I am doing with my 10 year old son. He has a ton of natural ability, and has been noodling with guitar, mandolin and banjo since he could walk. He will play for a while, then stop. I bought him guitars and certainly encouraged it, and maybe I did too much, too fast, in my own eagerness for him to become a musician. Now I just leave it alone and will let the chips fall where they may. I have to.

Like your son, my son wants to be great at everything immediately. Of course it seems silly to us, but that’s how it is. I always remind him that the greats (at any endeavor) are still practicing everyday, trying to get better. They did not magically become great. It requires a ton of work.

Giving him privacy is also vital, I believe. If he picks up an instrument, I walk out and let him explore, without any correction, critique, instruction, etc…I don’t want him to become frustrated, or (especially) embarrassed. The only way I will get involved is when he directly asks me to help or show him something. Otherwise I’m out of there.

Just my own way of handling it. Leave it alone.

[Sponserv]

Originally Posted by TheGITM

Dude! Our HS robotics team also made it to Worlds! We went 5 years ago (when my son and I first got involved), and just made it back again this year. Of course, my son has since graduated, but the team continues...

We played on the Archimedes field and were the #4 alliance captains. Sadly, we lost to both the #1 and #2 alliances and that knocked us all the way out. The team did great, though, and the robot was really good this year.

That's ironic and hilarious. We were probably sitting about 20 feet apart as we were on Curie right next to you. We also had a tough weekend with many unforeseen issues. But at least we made it to worlds. We have qualified two years in a row. An amazing experience for these kids.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by Sponserv

Thats a great question Fazool. Do I want him to play guitar? Yes, absolutely. Does he want me to play video games? Yes, absolutely.

But when he asks me if a certain artists bend is a whole or half note while listening to a song I get sad because he understands so much more than some folks who DO play guitar.

And for the record....I never go into his room and ask him what level he is at in the video game he is playing. I am sure if I showed even a basic understanding of a particular game he would get excited and want me to play.

but do YOU want to play video games or does he want you to play video games.

[Sponserv]

Originally Posted by fazool

but do YOU want to play video games or does he want you to play video games.

LOL. This could get very circular. I am a non traditional older dad who does not have nearly enough patience to learn to play video games. And most of his peers have dads that grew up with video games and gladly play with them.

So I guess he lets me not play video games and I let him not play guitar. LOL

All good.

[Neil K Walk]

Don't push it on him. Let him discover his own joy. That he shows an interest in it should be enough. The fact that he's pushing back shows me that he's feeling pressured into it and that will likely only drive him away from it.

FWIW I'm a 55yo dad with 2 sons (17 and 20) and while they love music I know that their attention spans are short compared to mine. Indeed, their mother has accused me of being addicted and obsessed with guitar. It's all relative.

[rllink]

Originally Posted by Denandannie

Kids want short cuts. There aren’t any.

Originally Posted by leew3

I wonder whether the online phenoms lead younger people to believe that unless one can be like them, it's not worth trying. Additionally, the difficulty of guitar is indeed daunting, especially with so many other much easier distractions with which to fill ones time. I sound like an old guy perhaps because I am, and came to guitar over 50 years ago while living in the country with three channels on television.

I don't think it is a kid thing. I know a lot of middle age folks and a lot of older folks, they measure themselves to some musician with star qualities that they admire and when they realize just how far they have to go to reach that level of ability they get discouraged and quit, or in this case, it is too daunting to even attempt. For some reason they cannot accept anything less for themselves. I think it is just human nature for some people, young and old. Some become focused with what they can't do and others by what they can. I don't think that necessarily changes with age. It is hard for some to accept mediocracy, which is probably the best a lot of us are going to be.

[Jamolay]

Originally Posted by rllink

I don't think it is a kid thing. I know a lot of middle age folks and a lot of older folks, they measure themselves to some musician with star qualities that they admire and when they realize just how far they have to go to reach that level of ability they get discouraged and quit, or in this case, it is too daunting to even attempt. For some reason they cannot accept anything less for themselves. I think it is just human nature for some people, young and old. Some become focused with what they can't do and others by what they can. I don't think that necessarily changes with age. It is hard for some to accept mediocracy, which is probably the best a lot of us are going to be.

I would agree. Having started to play 3 years ago and following forums around guitar topics, especially the one associated with my primary lesson source, I see many adults, all ages really, start the journey, only to make a bunch of lame excuses and then disappear.
Whatever they believe was a problem (my hands are too small) the bottom line is they came face to face with the fact that learning an instrument is not easy or fast. It just seems that the internets are full of instant phenomenons, but I bet those people, love ‘em or hate ‘em, love to play, worked hard and play a lot.

[Tycobb73]

Let me tell you a story. My daughter's classmate loves volleyball. It is her life. If she wasn't 5 foot 1 as a sophomore I'm sure every college in the nation would be looking at her. Got invited to be on the Olympic track but dad didn't want to spend the money.

Last year her dad said she had to play soccer. She hated it. Told the rest of the team that she hated it and didn't want to be there and rolled her eyes when the coach put her in. This year her dad told her she had to play soccer again. She told he dad her knee hurt. She told my daughter there is nothing wrong with her knee. Is that the type of parent you want to be?

Yesterday I watched my sons school jazz band get judged. Today I watched my daughter play soccer. Even though I'm a musician and not an athlete I don't know which events I enjoy watching more. I just love watching my children do what they love.

And every generation calls the generation after it lazy and stupid yet the US always seems to survive.

[rllink]

Originally Posted by Sponserv

I was a very late entrant into the learn to play guitar world. Started at 56 and am now about 10 years into my journey. I would consider myself somewhere between a beginner and "knocking on the door" of being an intermediate player. Admittedly life gets in the way or my progress would be much better.

I have a 16 year old son who took a rock history course and is absolutely more dialed in to the bands of my era than I ever will be. He talks about chord progressions, riffs, basic theory and other stuff like he has been playing for years.

However, he will not even think about touching any of my guitars. I have been trying to convince him that the younger he starts the better musician he will be.

He has this mental block that if he can't be David Gilmour in two weeks then he will not bother even trying. Its is very frustrating for me.

I stink at guitar but for me it is very cathartic and relaxing. When I am playing I only focus on my playing and not anything else that would be bothering me.

Is there anyone else out there dealing with this? I tell him that professional musicians are just that...professionals. We all can't play like Clapton. Or throw footballs like Brady. Or hit golf balls like Tiger. But that doesn't stop most people from playing golf anyway.

I just don't get it.

I was thinking about this last night and I have to wonder if the son took the course just so that he had something he could relate to with his dad. So that he could have a better understanding of what his dad is so passionate about. He wants to show his dad that he is interested in him, not necessarily in guitars. He is making an effort to connect with his dad, that should be enough in itself. But now dad wants more and the son doesn't want to go there. Maybe dad should back off and enjoy the fact that his son wants to talk to him at all.

[thefsb]

Originally Posted by Sponserv

He has this mental block that if he can't be David Gilmour in two weeks then he will not bother even trying.

I just don't get it.

It's not so strange. It's a lot of work to learn to play a musical instrument well. Many of people will, confronted with that knowledge, choose not to make the investment. That seems entirely reasonable to me. There are a great many ways to spend your time.

[TheGITM]

Originally Posted by Sponserv

That's ironic and hilarious. We were probably sitting about 20 feet apart as we were on Curie right next to you. We also had a tough weekend with many unforeseen issues. But at least we made it to worlds. We have qualified two years in a row. An amazing experience for these kids.

I had to go look...

We were also in the Green Country event last year where you guys were on the winning alliance. We were on alliance 5 and got sent to the loser bracket after RD1... then won every match up to the semifinals and got eliminated in RD5. In the one match where our alliances competed in the qualifying rounds, we lost

You guys are on a roll! Good to see... keep it rolling! It's pretty incredible what these young folks can do...

[Glennwillow]

What a great discussion. This is a subject I have thought about a great deal.

Folks throughout this discussion have hit on various truths -- that getting good at music is about desire and tenacity, not merely "talent," for example -- so I doubt that I have anything significant to add, except possibly one thing.

That is, our children (and in my case these days, our grand children) are not us. They have their own personalities and just because we were attracted to the guitar doesn't mean they will be. As Sponserv has noted, allowing his son to be whatever he is going to be is the wise and prudent choice.

The robot thing is cool!

The other comment I would like to make is this: sometimes people at a different time of life decide to pursue a skill like guitar playing that they were not ready for when they were young. Many of the comments here reflect that really happens to some of us. When I bought my grand daughter a guitar, the guy selling it to us said, "Well, she may get into this or she might later when she is ready, or she may never go for this. You have to let kids be who they are."

- Glenn

[Bluenose]

Personally I think the internet for all its wonderful benefits has taken some of the mystique out guitar playing. When I was in my late teens I became somewhat obsessed with becoming a good player and would seek out books on the subject and later take private lessons and basically spend lots of my free time practicing. I often wonder if I would have been so determined if all the information I could ever want, all the the videos I could ever wish to see were so readily available. Also back then the possibility of making a comfortable living as a musician seemed to me to be more achievable. Over the years I've learned to play competently enough but have made my living doing more mundane things unfortunately. I enjoy playing the guitar today but I think I enjoyed just as much back when I was trying so hard to become 'good' at it.

[mtdmind]

I taught my son guitar for a while and even got him his own guitar. But he really didn't like playing guitar. He gravitated toward percussion. He can sight read on xylophones and marimba's really well and has excellent rhythmn.