Back/Side wood for a redwood Lowden: Honduran Rosewood vs Madagascar Rosewood

[jim_pridx]

Originally Posted by nightrain

I'm not sure on the proneness of cracking between rosewood species, does anyone have any info on that?

Well, I know that Brazilian is generally prone to crack. As much as I love it, that's one reason I'd never pay the high $$$ for it. I really don't know about the others.

It'll be interesting to hear what George has to say, though. Please be sure to fill us in when you hear from him.

[jseth]

Originally Posted by nightrain

What is this negative 'hoopla' you speak of?

I've emailed George Lowden about the differences between Honduras and Madagscar rosewood and am hoping for a reply soon to see what he thinks. I think that while Cocobolo is quite striking visually, I'd rather want a slightly lighter guitar.

The "negative hoopla"? Well, I'm not all that politically inclined, but apparently, Madagascar has been pretty much raped for all their rosewood; destroying the land and all the vegetation around it. I do believe it is one of the newer entries on the CITES list and would require documentation in order to travel from country to country... Madagascar rosewood is "the new" Brazilian rosewood, as far as deforestation and desolation is concerned...

While I realize that the socio-economics of living in Madagascar are FAR different than living here in the USA, and that the people in Madagascar have every right to do what they will with what they've got, to me, personally, I could not support a country's landscape being trashed just so I can have a couple pieces of wood on my guitar...

That's what I was referring to... I'm sure that, should you want actual documentation, just Google it and you'll get all you can stomach... and REMEMBER: this is just my opinion...

[BrunoBlack]

Originally Posted by jseth

I would have the back and sides made of Honduran rosewood... I've never been a big fan of Madagascar rosewood for the tone/sound, although it can be quite striking, visually. With all the negative "hoopla" surrounding that wood, I'd stay away from it.

Plus, James Goodall remarked to me that he thought Honduran rosewood was sonically the closest to Brazilian rosewood he had heard (this was about 4 years ago or so). Although Honduran rosewood can be all over the map, visually, I have seen some that was very pretty and nicely figured...

I was THIS close to having my Goodall Grand Concert being made with Honduran rosewood with a redwood top... but I opted for Honduran mahogany, as that was the wood I initially was inspired to have on this guitar...

Given your apparent interest, you might want to rethink your choice too....

http://www.theguardian.com/environme...ntal-activists

[jim_pridx]

Originally Posted by Haasome

Given your apparent interest, you might want to rethink your choice too....

http://www.theguardian.com/environme...ntal-activists

Well, to throw another angle on that argument, apparently much of the Honduran rosewood isn't actually logged in Honduras. If I'm not mistaken, much of it also comes from Belize, Guatemala and other regions in the area. Most people - including wood suppliers - often times don't have an inside track on precise locations.

[BrunoBlack]

Originally Posted by jim_pridx

Well, to throw another angle on that argument, apparently much of the Honduran rosewood isn't actually logged in Honduras. If I'm not mistaken, much of it also comes from Belize, Guatemala and other regions in the area. Most people - including wood suppliers - often times don't have an inside track on precise locations.

I agree this is a complicated issue and as consumers we should be at least thoughtful about what we support. But often we don't have the best information. Honduras is simply another example of how our global involvement has unmeasured consequences. When discussing MRW (for example) I own a guitar made of MRW, so I decided to contact a few of the smaller builders who use Madagascar to see what they had to say. They were pretty unanimous in what they shared with me.

They said it is legal to harvest and purchase Madagascar Rosewood with the proper CITES documentation. They all refuse to do work using wood that doesn't have documentation. In fact having a documented source of MRW might be the best way to support the efforts that need supporting in a country like Madagascar. Perhaps that's the question we need to ask.

In 2011 Madagascar Rosewood was listed by CITES as an appendix III endangered species, meaning that harvesting is allowed but restricted, and wood must be purchased with CITES documentation. Since then, all the Mad Rose these builders have purchased has been accompanied by CITES paperwork.

[BOOSE]

Originally Posted by jseth

The "negative hoopla"? Well, I'm not all that politically inclined, but apparently, Madagascar has been pretty much raped for all their rosewood; destroying the land and all the vegetation around it. I do believe it is one of the newer entries on the CITES list and would require documentation in order to travel from country to country... Madagascar rosewood is "the new" Brazilian rosewood, as far as deforestation and desolation is concerned...

While I realize that the socio-economics of living in Madagascar are FAR different than living here in the USA, and that the people in Madagascar have every right to do what they will with what they've got, to me, personally, I could not support a country's landscape being trashed just so I can have a couple pieces of wood on my guitar...

That's what I was referring to... I'm sure that, should you want actual documentation, just Google it and you'll get all you can stomach... and REMEMBER: this is just my opinion...

Sir i agree with you whole heartedly regarding having a landscape trashed so we can have a certain wood on a guitar, it would make me physically sick to think that any of my guitars had had that kind of impact on any countries environment, but how would any of us really know?

[mercy]

Some have said it above but a couple things that need to be emphasized. The builder is the main thing then the top. Also every piece of wood is different.
Re my opinion about the popular types of rosewood, Braz is the best sound, then Honduran then Panama. For a different type of sound Coco and Boise De Rose are great and beautiful besides. Again these are generalities that are more true than not.

[Riakstonic]

Where does Ziricote fall in this ?

[jim_pridx]

Originally Posted by Riakstonic

Where does Ziricote fall in this ?

This might help:

http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-...oods/ziricote/

[nightrain]

Back again guys! No reply from the Lowden team yet, sadly.

So, I still haven't decided yet, and to make matters worse I've given myself more options to choose from. Namely Indian Rosewood as a back and side wood combined with a redwood top. Now, I was initially springing for an F35, but from seeing videos on youtube I do really love the sound of the O series aswell. The thing is, If I wanted an O35 with Madagascar Rosewood back and sides (which between Honduras and Madagascar seems to be the go-to for me), I'd pay the same amount as for an O50 with Indian Rosewood Back and sides.

Now, the 50 series has mastergrade tonewoods and the 35 series AAAA. Visually, I may even like the master grade Indian Rosewood more than the Madagascar Rosewood (herecy, I know). The 50 series also has a nicer rosette and more classy appointments in general imho. Would you guys say between AAAA Madagascar Back and sides and master grade Indian Rosewood there is a favourable choice to your ears, if you find there to be a substantial difference at all? And does anyone have any experience with (Lowden) guitars that have Redwood over EIR?

[Orfeas]

Madagascar RW is EXCELLENT choice.

[Marcus Wong]

Originally Posted by nightrain

Back again guys! No reply from the Lowden team yet, sadly.

So, I still haven't decided yet, and to make matters worse I've given myself more options to choose from. Namely Indian Rosewood as a back and side wood combined with a redwood top. Now, I was initially springing for an F35, but from seeing videos on youtube I do really love the sound of the O series aswell. The thing is, If I wanted an O35 with Madagascar Rosewood back and sides (which between Honduras and Madagascar seems to be the go-to for me), I'd pay the same amount as for an O50 with Indian Rosewood Back and sides.

Now, the 50 series has mastergrade tonewoods and the 35 series AAAA. Visually, I may even like the master grade Indian Rosewood more than the Madagascar Rosewood (herecy, I know). The 50 series also has a nicer rosette and more classy appointments in general imho. Would you guys say between AAAA Madagascar Back and sides and master grade Indian Rosewood there is a favourable choice to your ears, if you find there to be a substantial difference at all? And does anyone have any experience with (Lowden) guitars that have Redwood over EIR?

I've had a similar experience with the Lowden team. Took over a month to reply.

I would say that just because it is a 50 series, doesn't means it would sound better. I have no experience as to whether or not they do brace their guitars differently from the original - 35 - 50 series, but I believe it's very much a marketing hype.... They boast that they use mastergrade tonewoods for the 50 series along with those fancy appointments and such. Frankly, the costs on their side to use better graded woods and extra appointments are not much at all, but there is a huge price hike from 35 to 50 series.

Ultimately, it would be up to you to decide which factors are more important to you

[ocarolan]

....you'd not go too far wrong with a simply elegant standard series O25 - cedar/EI rosewood. After playing it for a minute or two you'd forget all this agonising over minutiae and just enjoy the music and the classic Lowden sound. And you'd save a lot of money.

Keith

[ptr]

Hi,

I agree with ocarolan here, can't really go wrong with the Original Series.

I recently bought a Wee 25, and find the cedar/IRW very satisfying, but my redwood/cuban hog F35 also has a very rich a sound and a bit more definition compared to my Wee.

Audition a few wood combos if you can, it's the best way to know which speaks the most to you, that said I love both my Lowdens and didn't try the F35 before buying.

I did however try a number of the classic Lowden wood combos which definately helps in knowing what you're looking for.

Regards,
Peter

[nightrain]

Hey guys, I received a reply from the Lowden team:

'Thank you for your email. Honduras Rosewood has a very balanced, clear and loud tone without sacrificing bass response in contrast Madagascar is richer, and more subtle but not as clear and without the projection of Honduras. With Redwood, both will have good balance between bass and treble, with the Madagascar having a more diffuse response rather than the punchier Honduras.'