Back/Side wood for a redwood Lowden: Honduran Rosewood vs Madagascar Rosewood

[nightrain]

I'm pretty close to commissioning a custom Lowden guitar. I've decided it will be the F-size model with a Redwood top. I am, however, unsure of the back and sides woods I want to choose. I played a Redwood/Honduran Rosewood F-35 and it sounded fabulous, but I am wondering what you guys think of the difference between Honduran and Madagascar Rosewood. Aside from the visual aspect (Madagascar Rosewood being the prettier wood in my humble opinion), what can I expect soundwise between these different woods?

[BOOSE]

Hi nightrain,

There certainly will be differences in sound between the r/w you mention but another r/w you should consider for the b/s is Cocobolo, i have a F35, Redwood top with Cocobolo b/s and trust me its the most amazing Lowden you can imagine. The shop i bought it from sells dozens of Lowdens and they have had some stunning guitars over the years but the one i bought from them is still their favorite ever Lowden. I was looking at an O35 but they insisted i try the F35 and it still blows me away ever time i hear it, they were so right! The added bonus is it looks superb as well. But the sound it makes is incredible and i couldn't begin to describe it its so complex. You may have your heart set on the two you mention and they will sound fantastic but i urge you to consider Cocobolo, on the 35 with Redwood tops its as good as it gets.

[EverettWilliams]

I agree that Madagascar is typically more attractive.

But Honduran has a quality of tone that may work really well with redwood. To me it has a glassiness that might translate into pristine clarity on a lowden.

Of course it all depends on the piece of wood, but all things being equal, Madagascar veers to the warmer side of the spectrum and Honduran the clearer and glassy side.

If you loved the Honduran and redwood combination, that's a pretty good sign that it would work for you.

Good luck!

[nightrain]

Originally Posted by BOOSE

Hi nightrain,

There certainly will be differences in sound between the r/w you mention but another r/w you should consider for the b/s is Cocobolo, i have a F35, Redwood top with Cocobolo b/s and trust me its the most amazing Lowden you can imagine. The shop i bought it from sells dozens of Lowdens and they have had some stunning guitars over the years but the one i bought from them is still their favorite ever Lowden. I was looking at an O35 but they insisted i try the F35 and it still blows me away ever time i hear it, they were so right! The added bonus is it looks superb as well. But the sound it makes is incredible and i couldn't begin to describe it its so complex. You may have your heart set on the two you mention and they will sound fantastic but i urge you to consider Cocobolo, on the 35 with Redwood tops its as good as it gets.

Thank you for your advice. To be honest I had not considered Cocobolo as a choice. I have heard that it is extremely heavy. How heavy would you say your guitar is, approximately? From pictures, Cocobolo looks incredible, but how would it compare tonewise to the other Rosewood species?

[tomiv9]

You might want to check on price. I would guess Madagascar RW would be alot more expensive

[jim_pridx]

I know that George himself likes to use Honduran rosewood. If you haven't done so already, check out his "Every guitar has a voice" videos on Youtube. Personally speaking, while I love the appearance of Madi rosewood, I prefer the tone of Honduran of the guitars I've owned. Since you're commissioning a Lowden guitar, why not speak with George about it?

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by nightrain

I'm pretty close to commissioning a custom Lowden guitar. I've decided it will be the F-size model with a Redwood top. I am, however, unsure of the back and sides woods I want to choose. I played a Redwood/Honduran Rosewood F-35 and it sounded fabulous, but I am wondering what you guys think of the difference between Honduran and Madagascar Rosewood. Aside from the visual aspect (Madagascar Rosewood being the prettier wood in my humble opinion), what can I expect soundwise between these different woods?

I have a redwood/honduran rosewood bouzouki that looks and sounds amazing. I chose that combo because I wanted a zouk that would have more warmth and could stand alone as a solo instrument. It didn't disappoint.

[BOOSE]

Originally Posted by nightrain

Thank you for your advice. To be honest I had not considered Cocobolo as a choice. I have heard that it is extremely heavy. How heavy would you say your guitar is, approximately? From pictures, Cocobolo looks incredible, but how would it compare tonewise to the other Rosewood species?

Hi nightrain,

It is heavy its one of the heaviest tone woods you can use, never weighed my Lowden but compared to my other guitar, a Martin ooo18, its twice the weight! But don't let that put you off unless of course you dont want a heavy guitar. Like i said before the Cocobolo gives a tone like nothing i've ever heard on any other guitar. jim_pridx mentioned George's youtube channel in which he explains far better than me about the differences in tone woods, Cocobolo is on there. Good luck but to be honest you cannot go wrong with a Lowden whatever the woods you choose.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by nightrain

Thank you for your advice. To be honest I had not considered Cocobolo as a choice. I have heard that it is extremely heavy. How heavy would you say your guitar is, approximately? From pictures, Cocobolo looks incredible, but how would it compare tonewise to the other Rosewood species?

I'll concur. My cocobolo guitar is noticeably heavier than my others. Not so much that it's unusable as a stage guitar, but the extra weight is noticeable.

[jseth]

I would have the back and sides made of Honduran rosewood... I've never been a big fan of Madagascar rosewood for the tone/sound, although it can be quite striking, visually. With all the negative "hoopla" surrounding that wood, I'd stay away from it.

Plus, James Goodall remarked to me that he thought Honduran rosewood was sonically the closest to Brazilian rosewood he had heard (this was about 4 years ago or so). Although Honduran rosewood can be all over the map, visually, I have seen some that was very pretty and nicely figured...

I was THIS close to having my Goodall Grand Concert being made with Honduran rosewood with a redwood top... but I opted for Honduran mahogany, as that was the wood I initially was inspired to have on this guitar...

[nightrain]

Originally Posted by jseth

I would have the back and sides made of Honduran rosewood... I've never been a big fan of Madagascar rosewood for the tone/sound, although it can be quite striking, visually. With all the negative "hoopla" surrounding that wood, I'd stay away from it.

Plus, James Goodall remarked to me that he thought Honduran rosewood was sonically the closest to Brazilian rosewood he had heard (this was about 4 years ago or so). Although Honduran rosewood can be all over the map, visually, I have seen some that was very pretty and nicely figured...

I was THIS close to having my Goodall Grand Concert being made with Honduran rosewood with a redwood top... but I opted for Honduran mahogany, as that was the wood I initially was inspired to have on this guitar...

What is this negative 'hoopla' you speak of?

I've emailed George Lowden about the differences between Honduras and Madagscar rosewood and am hoping for a reply soon to see what he thinks. I think that while Cocobolo is quite striking visually, I'd rather want a slightly lighter guitar.

[Marcus Wong]

I've played a Lowden F-35 in Redwood/HRW but not its counterpart in MRW. I would say however, that despite having inherent differences in the 2 species, it would be minor enough for you to pick based on a combination of the following factors:
-looks
-price
-rarity
-how prone the wood is to cracking
-and so on

In fact, you might even find more differences between 2 HRW Lowdens than between a HRW and MRW Lowden given the similarities of the tonewood. Best of luck with your choice!

[jim_pridx]

Originally Posted by nightrain

What is this negative 'hoopla' you speak of?

I've emailed George Lowden about the differences between Honduras and Madagscar rosewood and am hoping for a reply soon to see what he thinks. I think that while Cocobolo is quite striking visually, I'd rather want a slightly lighter guitar.

When considering the weight factor, I don't know how much relevance this may have, but here's a basic Dalbergia (rosewood) density chart that I found a while back. Generally speaking, the lower the density, the lighter the weight:

1,270 kg/m3 - African Blackwood (Dalbergia melanoxylon)
1,200 kg/m3 - Kingwood (Dalbergia cearensis)
1,095 kg/m3 - Cocobolo (Dalbergia retusa)
1,085 kg/m3 - Amazon Rosewood (Dalbergia spruceana)
1,040 kg/m3 - Burmese Blackwood (Dalbergia cultrata)
1,035 kg/m3 - Siamese Rosewood (Dalbergia cochinchinensis)
1,020 kg/m3 - Honduran Rosewood (Dalbergia stevensonii)
970 kg/m3 - Tulipwood (Dalbergia cultrata)
940 kg/m3 - Burmese Rosewood (Dalbergia oliveri)
935 kg/m3 - Madagascar Rosewood (Dalbergia baronii, greveana, madagascariensis, monticola)
930 kg/m3 - Boise de Rose (Dalbergia maritima)
835 kg/m3 - Brazilian Rosewood (Dalbergia nigra)
830 kg/m3 - East Indian Rosewood (Dalbergia latifolia)
770 kg/m3 - Sissoo (Dalbergia sissoo)
745 kg/m3 - Panama Rosewood (Dalbergia tucarensis)

[Riakstonic]

I like the sound of AGF member islands guitar his Doerr legacy LS Redwood on Cocobolo sure does sound lucious...

[nightrain]

Originally Posted by jim_pridx

When considering the weight factor, I don't know how much relevance this may have, but here's a basic Dalbergia (rosewood) density chart that I found a while back. Generally speaking, the lower the density, the lighter the weight:

1,270 kg/m3 - African Blackwood (Dalbergia melanoxylon)
1,200 kg/m3 - Kingwood (Dalbergia cearensis)
1,095 kg/m3 - Cocobolo (Dalbergia retusa)
1,085 kg/m3 - Amazon Rosewood (Dalbergia spruceana)
1,040 kg/m3 - Burmese Blackwood (Dalbergia cultrata)
1,035 kg/m3 - Siamese Rosewood (Dalbergia cochinchinensis)
1,020 kg/m3 - Honduran Rosewood (Dalbergia stevensonii)
970 kg/m3 - Tulipwood (Dalbergia cultrata)
940 kg/m3 - Burmese Rosewood (Dalbergia oliveri)
935 kg/m3 - Madagascar Rosewood (Dalbergia baronii, greveana, madagascariensis, monticola)
930 kg/m3 - Boise de Rose (Dalbergia maritima)
835 kg/m3 - Brazilian Rosewood (Dalbergia nigra)
830 kg/m3 - East Indian Rosewood (Dalbergia latifolia)
770 kg/m3 - Sissoo (Dalbergia sissoo)
745 kg/m3 - Panama Rosewood (Dalbergia tucarensis)

You guys are all really helpful. Judging by this table Cocobolo would be about 20% heavier. That's quite a bit heavier I guess. I would prefer Honduras/Madagascar I think, unless the tone would really be a lot better.

Originally Posted by Marcus Wong

I've played a Lowden F-35 in Redwood/HRW but not its counterpart in MRW. I would say however, that despite having inherent differences in the 2 species, it would be minor enough for you to pick based on a combination of the following factors:
-looks
-price
-rarity
-how prone the wood is to cracking
-and so on

In fact, you might even find more differences between 2 HRW Lowdens than between a HRW and MRW Lowden given the similarities of the tonewood. Best of luck with your choice!

Good point I suppose. In terms of price, it's not that much more of a premium for a Madagascar Rosewood version. I'm not sure on the proneness of cracking between rosewood species, does anyone have any info on that?