Opinions on East Indian Rosewood vs Madagascar Rosewood!

[cpabolting]

Originally Posted by RussL30

There's no way to say either one will sound better, and you're better may be different than my better or another's better. Maybe a higher percentage of Brazilian will make better sounding guitars than EIR, but who knows. Just because things are more expensive, it doesn't mean they will be better.

Same builder built at same time exactly the same except back and sides....you are simply incorrect in my opinion.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by -12-

Not nearly enough, if you ask me

How did you establish that the degree to which Taylor varies wood thickness as a function of wood species is not nearly enough?

[jhchang]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

How did you establish that the degree to which Taylor varies wood thickness as a function of wood species is not nearly enough?

How did you establish that the degree to which Taylor varies wood thickness as a function of wood species is enough?

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by jhchang

How did you establish that the degree to which Taylor varies wood thickness as a function of wood species is enough?

I didn't. I made no representation, I simply pointed out that Taylor varies the thickness. You claimed it was not nearly enough so you must know by how much Taylor changes the thickness and by how much more it would be preferable to increase the differences.

[Hurricane Ramon]

Originally Posted by ricks

I own one Maddie right now, and have had and played others, and I have owned way too many EIR guitars over the past four years.
Can I hear a difference just from the woods? Maybe a little, it depends.
Both of the Maddie guitars I have owned seemed a bit more focused than an EIR counterpart I had played, but not a lot of difference tonally.
I agree with Jeff that the guitar and the builder are more important than a sub species of RW difference.
But I love Maddie. The grain and the color, just love it.
My only note on this is potential weight of the guitar. My Kinscherff is just plain Heavy ! Jamie swears the back and sides are not thicker than EIR would be, but that the wood is just a little bit denser. The wieght does not bother me now, but the first time I picked up that case and thought someone had slipped me an old Les Paul I was concerned . Great wood.

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Hello Ricks :

Yep maddies do weigh in at the heavy weight end of acoustic guitars - Many friends don't like that but I got over it fast when I heard the sound

I guess I spend almost as much time looking at it as playing it too .

The tone is as you mentioned for rose seem similar and then the subtle differences begin to come to the surface .

Mine in a rocking/jazzy/bluesy situation has this unreal deep clean echo that I swear must have been the reason delays and reverbs came about ( invented ) from guitar players .

For Slack key Hawaiian stuff I'm just getting my feet wet sounds da kine !

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Originally Posted by scub73

Can some of those who have listened to or own Madagascar Rosewood back and side guitars compared to Indian Rosewood give some opinions on tone differences please? Is the upgrade price difference for the Madagascar worth it??
I had been told that Madagascar was a great alternative to Brazilian without the problems of splitting or warping..
All opinions appreciated.

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Hey Scub :

It's a subjective call all based on how you " perceive " sound is what it boils down to .

I have had mine since 2001 . I live in a place that's torture for acoustic wooden instruments - A DESERT - ! ! !

I have a humidifier in it most of the time for that " extra " added advantage so's to speak .

No issues at all so far these 9 years .

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Originally Posted by flyingace

That's very true Herb. The back and sides comprise the majority of a guitar, so it's easy to see how people might think it's responsible for most of the tonal characteristics. But guitar shape, bracing and soundboard quality are far more important. I think of the back and sides as providing 'shading' to the sound.

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Is it a bird ? Is it a plane - no it's Flying Ace ! What's up man

Construction is the key factor in any wooden project yep . My maddie isn't one from a single one off luthier and yes if I could afford to commission a personalized guitar I would do it in a heart beat . I went through a lot of guitars looking for " THE ONE " when I ended up with my present maddie .

I auditioned many EIRs as well as BRs and Koa too . I lived in Hawaii 7 years and know a lot about Koa and will get one eventually . But I had a sound in my heart , head and ears I wanted and the maddie delivered like a BR and I didn't have to spend the bigger bucks for the BR to get " MY SOUND " . Also I wanted a rose before I learned of Koa so it was like a first things first goal to attain .

Funny Koa has a real rose like quality to it much like the BR and maddie . I wasn't a guitar player when I was living amongst the biggest Koa forests in the entire island group / I knew where ( and still are ) old fallen huge Koa trees / logs . I could kick myself now for not getting those logs !

Truth is when you first identify the sound made by any rosewood , it leaves a mark in you memory that is there forever if your so inclined and or predisposed as it were to being sensitive to the subtleties and the differences of tone woods .

Then after that happens and you learn what kind of wood moved you in that

" special unique way "

and still further in life you become a musician that happens to play guitar and ..........

Well - that's when all of it really amounts to something when you get one in your hands and grow with it .

Is it worth it ? :

Could be the stars and cosmic karma who knows and for that matter who really cares . In the final you are the only one who knows it or not as far as the wood in the guitar was worth it or not .

My first acoustic steel string was a maddie , a new purchase that was made after years of consideration . It was made when I was 49 , very late in life for a performer but better late than never .

Next guitar purchase has my guts wrenching ( because like my maddie which was out of my $ budget and I only I landed it for being at the right place at the right time for a deal of a deal ) because the rosewoods and Koas being offered these days are out there circling Saturn as far as my wallet is concerned .

I'm really lucky to have gotten my maddie . It's in a class of it's own - who ever the person was that put it together , surely they were a person with many years at the trade as the results of this guitar's sound speaking for itself and the luthier and then me the end user .

Get nothing but compliments about " Rose " from those who hear her

Easy all :

Hurricane Ramon

[akustic]

Originally Posted by cpabolting

But the same luthier building with EIR and Brazilian....just not true. It is well established the sonic qualities of Brazilian exceed EIR by a meaningful measure.

Even your favorite luthier J. Olson cant discern any tonal advantage Braz has over EIR...

[akustic]

Originally Posted by cpabolting

That is just plain ridiculous.

Brazilian rosewood versus indian rosewood built exactly the same by the same
builder will sound better out of the gate and over the long term.

Ask, J Olson...

[ricll]

Originally Posted by acousticdyl

What I meant was Madagasscar RW WILL be more rare. The dealer was telling me how it will be harder to come by in the coming decade.

I think there currently is a ban of this rosewood export from Madagascar, so I suppose it will get a lot more expensive too in the coming years.

[cke]

Originally Posted by akustic

Even your favorite luthier J. Olson cant discern any tonal advantage Braz has over EIR...

I talked to my luthier and compared some back wood. Bz and Madi are harder and denser, have a distinct glassy sound when thumped. There is reasonable expectation that BZ will sound a bit 'clearer' - all things being equal. My surprise was that my test with a Parlor was not really telling. The difference needs a big box to assert itself; Parlors are too small. I still maintain they sound a bit different, but great gits can be built of each. I haven't heard/played a bz guitar that convinced me I had to have it at the considerable up-charge. But I reserve the right to find the magic guitar when I have the surplus cash. In the mean time, I love my guitars as they are. And I play every good git I run across.

PS Can't wait to see the fight between the defenders and detractors for SA Mahogany vs the African mahogany's. This is such a gentle and supportive Forum.

[Peterw]

I almost hate to revive this zombie thread, maybe it's better left alone? But the debate about different kinds of rosewood b/s didn't exactly reach a definitive conclusion... and I have one more data point to add:

I recently sold a Custom Martin OMC-28 Laurence Juber in Adi/Indian and then immediately bought the exact same guitar with Madagascar (OMC-28MLJ). No difference at all in the build apart from Madagascar vs. Indian.

I didn't get to directly A-B them, but I'd played the Adi/Indian quite a bit and was pretty familiar with its sound. Then I played the Adi/Mad version. For whatever it's worth, folks, I was actually surprised that there was an unmistakable difference. The OMC-28M is louder, and more brilliant. Each note stands out more. I don't think there was any noticeable loss of warmth moving from Indian to Madagascar.

I know... two individual guitars can just sound different even if they had all the same woods. But with C.F. Martin more than most, I think tone is pretty consistent between different guitars and the difference in tone in this case was most likely due to the difference between Indian and Madagascar.

There's my vote. And sorry for letting the zombie back out of its box.

[musicman1951]

From the guitars I've heard (same model, IR vs Madagascar) the IR seems to be a tad lighter sounding, with the Madagascar a tad thicker tone. Since this was always two examples of the model, I couldn't swear the difference was because of the wood, but I did prefer the Madagascar. How much more would I pay for the Madagascar? Depends on the day, but realistically the difference was quite small and without the A/B comparison I doubt if I could pick out the wood hearing only one.

I'd much rather play a bunch of guitars and select the one that I loved than put much stock in the tone woods.

[Peterw]

Musicman1951, agreed-- it's always better to choose by the actual guitar, not the tonewoods (I've played dud Brazilian rosewood guitars, actually!). But I figured this was as close to a controlled A-B comparison as I could get-- and the Madi did come out better. So, that's my experience for whatever it's worth. If I were to average out all the comments in this thread, I think it would be something like: "yeah, Madi gives a bit more in general, but it depends on the individual guitar, and whether it's worth the difference in price is up to you."

[jaymarsch]

Agree that it will vary from luthier to luthier and guitar to guitar, but in my experience of the guitars that I have played and/or owned. I give the slight edge to Madagascar with a spruce top, especially Adi. It can be a great combo. On the other hand, I have a cedar/EIR 00 and I wouldn’t change one thing about it. If folks have a chance to A/B the guitars, it is always best so their ears and hands can be the final arbiter but these days that becomes harder to do.
Best,
Jayne