Do you need a "good" guitar?

[rmyAddison]

Originally Posted by ChrisE

Do you need a "good" guitar?

The reason I ask is because I know "a guy" who swears that he only wants cheap, no-name guitars because he "can make anything sound good." (His words).

He usually mentions this when I mention anything about my Taylor or my Martin. I think what he's trying to say to me is "You have fancy schmancy guitars and still suck, whereas my skills are so superior to yours I can play circles around you with a plastic toy-store guitar."

Personally, I think I need all the help I can get. Plus I work hard and make enough money on the side playing gigs to be able to afford a little better gear, whereas despite his awesome skills, the guy has no gigs.

There are a million "that guy" like in your story. They're always the same, decent players, can't afford better instruments, jealous, their defense mechanism kicks in and they make judgments/excuses that better instruments aren't "worth it" (translation, they can't afford them).

I have never, repeat never, in my 50+ years of playing met someone who, as finances get better over the years, buys the guitars they couldn't afford before, owns some fine instruments for years, then decides "You know these $5K Martin/Collings/Bourgeois/Santa Cruz/H&D really aren't any better than a $500 guitar, boy was I wrong !!!"

Never heard that, and never will. May everyone know the joy of owning a fine guitar during their journey.......

[erhino41]

Originally Posted by rct

You can't get in front of a few thousand people and play without a healthy one. At least, not more than once.

rct

There is a big difference between confidence and ego. I don't hold many people who play in front of thousands of people to be true musicians, at least not in my utmost ideal interpretation of such. That is not to say I think any one who has an overactive sense of self is not a true musician, I just think their music would be better served with a little modest restraint. There are many reasons to play music in front of thousands of people, I feel that the need to be the center of attention should not be the sole consideration.

I understand that in the music business if you don't self posture then you will get nowhere, but a true artist will show a separation of church and state, leaving the ego out of the creative process. This discussion was not about the music business, it was about something far more basic and as such, my opinion was far more basic in approach.

I have known many "talented" yet very egotistical musicians in my time. The funny thing is the bigger the ego the more their abilities have reach to overcome that. I have far more respect for the less "talented" person who is merely trying to serve their art more so than their need for attention.

[j3ffr0]

For some folks, playing cheap guitars can be their thing. If you find a playable one with good intonation you are already at a "decent" standard and approaching "good". You might get lucky and get decent tone. If you find that, then you have a good, cheap guitar. You can sound quite good indeed for a few hundred dollars or less if you happen to land a good, cheap guitar. They are plentiful enough that an experienced player can find one pretty easily.

Amplification or recording? A person who knows what they are doing can make a cheap guitar sound very, very good indeed. The Yamaha 12-string on "More Than A Feeling" is a classic example. There is a difference between a decent to good cheap guitar and a "bad guitar". It is much harder to make a bad guitar sound good -- it will just sound like a good player playing a bad guitar.

I've always gravitated towards the best I can get for the money I have available. In years long past that might have only been a couple hundred bucks. Even in those days I didn't ever have to play bad guitars -- The worst guitars I ever owned were decent, cheap guitars.... Some were good, cheap guitars and some were very good mid tier guitars.

[rct]

Originally Posted by erhino41

There is a big difference between confidence and ego. I don't hold many people who play in front of thousands of people to be true musicians, at least not in my utmost ideal interpretation of such. That is not to say I think any one who has an overactive sense of self is not a true musician, I just think their music would be better served with a little modest restraint. There are many reasons to play music in front of thousands of people, I feel that the need to be the center of attention should not be the sole consideration.

I understand that in the music business if you don't self posture then you will get nowhere, but a true artist will show a separation of church and state, leaving the ego out of the creative process. This discussion was not about the music business, it was about something far more basic and as such, my opinion was far more basic in approach.

I have known many "talented" yet very egotistical musicians in my time. The funny thing is the bigger the ego the more their abilities have reach to overcome that. I have far more respect for the less "talented" person who is merely trying to serve their art more so than their need for attention.

This discussion was not about the music business, I agree. I responded to the idea that ego has no place in music.

And if you think the word ego means "need for attention", you are seriously mistaken.

If you don't have the confidence to get in front of a few thousand people and the skill and ability to think on your feet when the inevitable goes wrong, you won't get far. Doing those things, doing them well, and being paid to do them well leads to a healthy ego, not a need for attention.

Back to a guy I mentioned earlier in this thread, Jeff Beck. A guy that would rather work on cars than play in front of people, a guy that doesn't even like being filmed walking his dog, that's how much attention he needs. But man, put in on a 90 foot wide stage with a guitar and he is in complete command of the instrument and the band, and he knows it. He's Jeff Beck. That's not needing attention, that's a voice that nobody else can cop, the experience and skill of almost 50 years playing in front of people doing what only he can do, something you can't buy. And thousands of others, most we'll never hear of.

The UTube kids can have all the attention they so desperately need for doing nothing but being the special, trophy winning snowflake they are, I'll take a tenth of what he's got.

rct

[TaoMaas]

A year or so ago, I was working up some songs with a couple of friends. We were supposed to perform at a Christmas party. For the first few practices, the lead singer played a Samick mahogany dread, I played my Yamaha FG730s, and our other friend played a shallow-bowl Ovation. All decent guitars, but not the good stuff. We sounded okay, but I started thinking that maybe we'd sound better if we mixed up the guitar sounds a bit more. The lead singer only had his Samick, but I asked the other guy to bring his Gibson J-200 to the next session and said I'd bring my Martin J-40. BIG difference! There was a much greater dynamic range to the guitars and everything sounded a lot fuller. Same songs, same players...better sound. I'd experienced something similar in a jam session with friends years earlier, which is why I tried to start playing better acoustic guitars. Good guitars do make a difference.

[Dronfield]

There is some footage on YouTube where Eric Clapton is discussing a couple of new Martin high end guitars, and he actually suggests that with all the bling they almost look too nice to play.

Interesting that with a choice of all the limited edition custom EC models that have been issued and now trade at £5k plus, that he chooses to play the bog standard model that go 2nd hand for circa £2k?! I accept that that is still an expensive guitar.

I did own for a number of years the 000-28ECB version, but if I ever buy another Martin will be very happy with the standard 000-28EC (or updated 000-18).

Rich

[Neil K Walk]

Define "good"? Everyone who wants to aspire to be better deserves to have a guitar that doesn't get in the way of that by being uncomfortable to play and uninspiring to listen to. Conversely, somebody looking to attract the eyes and ears on an audience that sounds and looks good to admirers in order to get them to listen to your playing.

So, short answer: yes, you "need" a good guitar.

[erhino41]

[QUOTE=WonderMonkey;5072612]

Also, I enjoy nice guitars. Your friend wears crappy guitars as a badge of honor. Good for him. I would just say "Well I can't do that, you win" and move on. If he kept bringing it up I think I'd get tired of that and again move on.[/]

One of the reasons he says it is to elicit that response, I wouldn't give him the satisfaction, not that he needs your reply to feel superior. I did not mean that to sound as harsh it did. I am certain in some ways your friend is well meaning, however nothing constructive comes from this exchange. If he was concerned about you playing up to the level of your guitars maybe he would offer useable advice rather than off handed ways to put you down. No matter how innocent he intended it to be, at the end of the day it is really a put down in disguise.

I look at it this way, if your friend was thrown into a room with all the world's guitars and no price tags, and told to take this pick, it would probably not be one of the "cheap" guitars he is playing now.

[Ditch]

The best saying that fits here is "whatever floats your boat". You like playing $99 guitars and it makes you happy go for it. If you like a $15,000 guitar and can afford it well then go for it. You can compare it to driving a Ford or a Lexus. Both will get you where you wanna go. Which one can you afford and which one makes the ride enjoyable.

[Captain Jim]

Originally Posted by RustyAxe

Meh ... I couldn't care less what someone else thinks of my guitar, my playing, or just about anything else they might think about things that are MY business. You know what they say about opinions ...

When it has come up (comments on what guitars I play), I simply say, "You should play what you enjoy, and I'll do the same."

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by rct

This discussion was not about the music business, I agree. I responded to the idea that ego has no place in music.

And if you think the word ego means "need for attention", you are seriously mistaken.

If you don't have the confidence to get in front of a few thousand people and the skill and ability to think on your feet when the inevitable goes wrong, you won't get far. Doing those things, doing them well, and being paid to do them well leads to a healthy ego, not a need for attention.

Back to a guy I mentioned earlier in this thread, Jeff Beck. A guy that would rather work on cars than play in front of people, a guy that doesn't even like being filmed walking his dog, that's how much attention he needs. But man, put in on a 90 foot wide stage with a guitar and he is in complete command of the instrument and the band, and he knows it. He's Jeff Beck. That's not needing attention, that's a voice that nobody else can cop, the experience and skill of almost 50 years playing in front of people doing what only he can do, something you can't buy. And thousands of others, most we'll never hear of.

The UTube kids can have all the attention they so desperately need for doing nothing but being the special, trophy winning snowflake they are, I'll take a tenth of what he's got.

rct

Agreed often in our culture the term ego is used to mean what is really more accurately defined as " insecure ego" which usually manifests itself in one of two opposite ways . One way is those people who are achingly uncomfortable in social situations and seek to avoid them. And the other of course is those people who overcompensate by being extrovert and needing to be the center of attention, or by seeking to (at least in their own minds) elevate their status by degrading or seeing themselves as somehow superior to others.

I have also known some extremely talented people who are actually fairly shy when not on stage. Not to mention that sometimes the bigger the audience the more removed the performer can feel ...To quote Bob Seger "Out there in the spotlight, you're a million miles away "

While I have played a couple of times to a crowd of some 500, by far and away the most intimidating gig (and arguably the best one to determine if you can get over the hump of stage fright, and also to learn to engage the audience) is actually an open mic called "The Jackson Hole Hootenanny" that started over 40 years ago as an informal outside get together, and has been running officially uninterrupted for over 30.

In this open mic venue which usually varies between 30 up to 100 people in the audience , it is announced at the start of every Monday night performance.
"In order to maximize the experience and engagement for both the audience and the performers. We ask that the audience not talk while the performer is playing".

Because this venue is small and the first row of audience members are about 8 feet from the performer and as you step up to the single mic (for both voice and guitar) you are looking directly into the eyes of a dead quiet audience who's 100% attention is focused on you.

[rct]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Agreed often in our culture the term ego is used to mean what is really more accurately defined as " insecure ego" which usually manifests itself in one of two opposite ways . One way is those people who are achingly uncomfortable in social situations and seek to avoid them. And the other of course is those people who overcompensate by being extrovert and needing to be the center of attention, or by seeking to (at least in their own minds) elevate their status by degrading or seeing themselves as somehow superior to others.

I have also known some extremely talented people who are actually fairly shy when not on stage. Not to mention that sometimes the bigger the audience the more removed the performer can feel ...To quote Bob Seger "Out there in the spotlight, you're a million miles away "

While I have played a couple of times to a crowd of some 500, by far and away the most intimidating gig (and arguably the best one to determine if you can get over the hump of stage fright, and also to learn to engage the audience) is actually an open mic called "The Jackson Hole Hootenanny" that started over 40 years ago as an informal outside get together, and has been running officially uninterrupted for over 30.

In this open mic venue which usually varies between 30 up to 100 people in the audience , it is announced at the start of every Monday night performance.
"In order to maximize the experience and engagement for both the audience and the performers. We ask that the audience not talk while the performer is playing".

Because this venue is small and the first row of audience members are about 8 feet from the performer and as you step up to the single mic (for both voice and guitar) you are looking directly into the eyes of a dead quiet audience who's 100% attention is focused on you.

Yeah, but it's Jackson.

Honey Badgers for everyone, Snake River Grill, on me!

rct

[MrHooligan73]

What is defined as a 'good guitar' ?
Is it a price range or a specific brand?
I feel for me a good guitar is one that inspires me to play more and practice more. This could be a cheap epiphone dr100 up to yamaha LL6. I would love to have a nice high end guitar one day. Thus far I don't feel it is a need to further progress my skill set as I still am the same level of skill on both the above mentioned guitars. A two to three thousand dollar surely should sound better and feel better anyone's hands nut the 'bad' guitars thus far have not held me back fron getting any better when I put in proper time practicing and learning new things.

[JonHBone]

One thing I'm realizing is that no matter what kind of guitars we buy, pretty much everyone likes to think of themselves as smart shoppers and will have their reasons why they buy what they buy, and why the other guy is arrogant. It really seems to work both ways.

[dgt178]

.......my, my, my.....this thread seems to be surfacing a lot of "EGOS".....and it appears that many of them are becoming bruised.......imagine that......