Why no jumbo frets on acoustics?

[Coolerman]

Finally a thread I can post relevant information to!

Back in 2012 my wife's cousin (who builds electric guitars) was working on my 79 Yamaha FG-365s including re-fretting it due to really worn frets . He called and wanted to know if I wanted it re-fretted with jumbo frets. I of course was completely ignorant of what difference it would make, so asked him to explain why this was a good idea. He said it would play easier. That was enough for me and I told him to go for it.

When I got the guitar back, I'll have to say I could not really tell if it was "easier" to play, but it sure sounded louder to my untrained ears.

The only bad thing was this: It was his first time doing a re-fret on a bound neck guitar and he could not figure out how to get the binding off without breaking it. So... he just cut across the binding to install the frets...

To be honest, I did not even notice until he admitted it. I will never sell this guitar so am not worried about what it may have done to the value of the guitar.

[guitararmy]

https://www.zzounds.com/item--ESPXTONED5

I have the cutaway version of this guitar, and it has jumbo frets.
Definitely not as much fun changing chords or sliding up the fretboard...

[3notes]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

My guess would be that the jumbo frets don't offer enough overt advantages to acoustic players to make them want to switch. I know that the standard sizes of fret wire seem to work just fine on the acoustic instruments that I play.


whm

In all due respect small frets work just fine on an electric guitar as well.

I think it's a good question. I wouldn't be surprised if a builder comes out with one to test the market. Maybe not any time soon but it wouldn't surprise me.

[mercy]

They are hard to play so it makes the guitar harder to play. With an electric the guitar is easy to play to start with so adding jumbo's doesnt change things much.

[archerscreek]

This thread is nearly 9 years old.

[justonwo]

I prefer jumbo frets (EVO 55090, to be specific). With low frets, your finger bottoms out on the fretboard while the string may fall back into the flesh of your finger or into the recesses from one of your finger joints. Nowhere is this more apparent than when fretting a barre chord. With vintage frets, it’s much more difficult to cleaning barre a chord because your finger bottoms out against the fretboard and you can’t get even pressure across your forefinger. For me, this means it can be impossible to eliminate buzz on the G or D string for some barre formations.

By contrast, if you barre with jumbo frets you’ll find you can easily barre just about any chord formation. Furthermore, string bending is way easier because you can get up under the string.

I had low vintage frets on my Schoenberg when I first got it. I got so tired of the complications of low fret wire that I pulled it and replaced with EVO 99050.

[zoopeda]

Gibson is putting jumbo fret wire on their new Historic series guitars. “Legend Wire,” they call it.

The only drawback people site is intonation high up the neck. Given I don’t spend a lot of time way high on the neck and my ears either don’t hear the intonation “issue” or don’t care, the benefit of thicker tone and easier fretting seems like a worthy upgrade. I’ll put jumbo on my Martin when it needs a regret someday, for sure.

[UncleJesse]

Eastmans are pretty close to jumbo frets. I much prefer the Martin style frets. I've considered getting my Eastmans refretted.

[steveh]

Originally Posted by justonwo

With low frets, your finger bottoms out on the fretboard while the string may fall back into the flesh of your finger or into the recesses from one of your finger joints. Nowhere is this more apparent than when fretting a barre chord.

^This.

I always specify high frets - makes playing the thing so very much eaiser. So easy to fret difficult chords etc. Extrapolate the jumbo frets concept and you end up with a scalloped neck. Yngwie plays them for a reason.

I recently had a nylon refretted with Jescar 55095 (similar to Dunlop 6100) and now it pretty much plays itself.

Sure, it can feel a bit like railroad tracks when sliding up and down the neck (esp if you grip too tight), but it's what happens when you get where you're going that matters.

Cheers,
Steve

[blindboyjimi]

Originally Posted by blindboyjimi

I have the Dunlop 6155's (frets on the 18 NB) on all my guitars. My fingers never touch the fretboard and I barely have callouses. I just prefer it that way. I've yet to change out my 18A as it plays perfect with low Martin frets, so it's not a huge thing, but worth it to me.

It’s funny to read my posts from years ago in this old thread. Incidentally, I did have Martin re-fret my 000-18A with Dunlop 6155s so there’s one out of the 96 000-18As with jumbo frets. I’ve moved on from Dunlop 6155 (0.047” x 0.103”) to Jescar EVO 47095 (Which are smartly 0.047” x 0.095”) Essentially the same but the EVOs never seem to wear out.

The key is that once you learn to play without a death grip, it doesn’t matter how tall the frets get. 0.047” gets me fully off the fretboard and my ears tell me if I’m pushing too hard. I still barely have callouses. The best lesson I ever had was one that showed me that if one frets on the fret - or just to the nut side but still on the fret, how little effort is needed.

The lesson is simple. Press in the middle of the 6th fret on any string. Now move backwards slowly toward the 5th fret. Notice very carefully how much more pressure it takes, how much more tension and how the note may buzz or go sharp. As you move up to the 5th fret it will dampen the note. When you get right on the apex of the 5th fret start lifting your pressure until the string comes off the fret. Now simply press it down, ever so slightly increasing the pressure until the note sounds. That is the location and pressure you need. So now when I learn a new song I really concentrate to go very slowly (like 40 bps) and be conscious of exactly where and exactly how much pressure is applied by each finger of the left hand. For me, it’s the best lesson ever.

[Scotso]

Originally Posted by 3notes

In all due respect small frets work just fine on an electric guitar as well.

I think it's a good question. I wouldn't be surprised if a builder comes out with one to test the market. Maybe not any time soon but it wouldn't surprise me.

Gallagher have monster frets. Not sure if jumbo or medium jumbo. They did it cuz Doc Watson requested them.If it is good enough for Doc....

[BluesBelly]

Originally Posted by strings4him

I've noticed that Larrivee guitars have larger frets than other makers.

I agree!
Larrivee frets are larger but still sized very nicely and they are as tough as iron. One more reason I like Larrivee

Blues

[Martin_F]

Acoustic players tend to use way more capo in their playing. Jumbo frets would not be great with capo’s because of pulling the strings too much out of tune. You might be ok with some capo’s, but it would be harder to keep your tuning without some conscious effort.

I never had any issues with sized regular frets.

Welcome back old thread!

Martin

[Fast Jimmy]

I so much prefer the jumbo frets that I spec them out when I commission a custom guitar and I also had my Custom Shop Gibson Hummingbird re-fretted with jumbos. I feel they make it easier for me to play.
Fast Jimmy

[1neeto]

Originally Posted by blaren

I don't understand this. Why are higher frets easier to play? Are you saying that because they are taller they are closer to the strings and so the action is lower??
You don't need to raise the frets to lower action. You can do that at the saddle and nut.

Have you ever played a fretless wonder? You know, the old Les Pauls with flat crowns?? The low frets is WHAT makes the action so low on those.
I have a '76 Hummingbird. The frets have no wear on them but they are VERY "short". That thing has better action than ANY of my acoustics and some of my electrics...because the frets are so short and flat.

Unless I'm confusing this and misunderstood what you said...taller frets does not make the action better/lower/easier.

It’s one of those things you won’t get it until you try it. No, it doesn’t make the action lower, but bigger frets allow for the notes to ring with less pressure, which can translate to faster playing, easier vibrato, and easier string bending. That’s why “shredder pointy guitars” usually come with jumbo or extra jumbo or scalloped fretboards. It’s all about making a fretted note ring with the least effort possible. Of course, jumbo frets and/or scalloped fretboards require a lot of finesse when playing.

Edit:
Of course a main disadvantage is not just being possible to fret too hard and make notes sharp, but also your attack must be softer because of string buzz. I imagine an acoustic with jumbo frets can get very buzzy if you have a heavy strumming hand.