Chinese made martin d-45 1968 replica

[pakhan]

Originally Posted by jimmy bookout

What I said:
And IMO, there is a HUGE difference between calling a guitar a "000" and calling it a "000-28". 000 is a body size, 000-28 is a sitka/rosewood Martin.

Actually a 000-28 isn't a sitka/rosewood Martin. It depends on when it was produced. So it could be anything from 12 to 14 frets, sitka or adirondack, indian or brazilian rosewood, scalloped or non scalloped braced, long or short scale, ebony or T rod or adjustable truss rod, bar or t frets, herringbone or non herringbone....

And most builders don't call their models a 000-28. They would say it is their version of the 000-28 and go on to list the specification because they understand that saying 000-28 is not going to be very accurate and because they respect that they are interpreting a Martin model.

Mostly these builders are vintage inspired so even Martin doesn't make 000-28s like they did back in the 20's and 30's.

[HHP]

Merrill Guitars use the designations OM-18 and OM-28 for two of their models. They use the "28" and "18" with a "C"" prefix instead of a "D". Martin doesn't seem to care but these cost more than their comparable models.

[jimmy bookout]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

Can you please point out a specific example of a non-Martin that is actually listed as a 000-28 (your example...or say, D-28) by it's builder?

Thanks.

Here you go:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...+thompson+om45

Jimmy

[jimmy bookout]

Originally Posted by pakhan

Actually a 000-28 isn't a sitka/rosewood Martin. It depends on when it was produced. So it could be anything from 12 to 14 frets, sitka or adirondack, indian or brazilian rosewood, scalloped or non scalloped braced, long or short scale, ebony or T rod or adjustable truss rod, bar or t frets, herringbone or non herringbone....

And most builders don't call their models a 000-28. They would say it is their version of the 000-28 and go on to list the specification because they understand that saying 000-28 is not going to be very accurate and because they respect that they are interpreting a Martin model.

Mostly these builders are vintage inspired so even Martin doesn't make 000-28s like they did back in the 20's and 30's.

Thanks for the Martin history lesson...most folks don't have your extensive knowledge of Martin, I assume most folks would be thinking of a modern guitar, so I should have said spruce/rosewood 000-28... See my post to Larry about "most builders" not using Martin model designations. I found the link I used in one search of AGF. There are more builders using Martin model designations than you think (or know).

Jimmy

[Rivarat]

From the video

"this is only a little test of Martin D45 China Replica.
I used the neumann tlm 103 with mr816 by steinberg
no equalizer, no compression , only a little ambience of the IR1 by waves "

Only a little ambience? Sounds really juiced to me.

[zombywoof]

Originally Posted by jimmy bookout

Did Fender do that (apply for a trademark on the body shapes)? If they did, they obviously didn't get the win.

Yup I believe it was in 2009. They tried and did lose.

Gibson went after PRS at one point and also lost.

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by jimmy bookout

Here you go:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...+thompson+om45

Jimmy

Thanks.

I understand how this might trouble you, even though it's not presented simply as an "OM45 Deluxe", it's a "Schoenberg OM45 Deluxe".

Any other examples...?

[HHP]

The problem is not whether it is any good or that they call it a "D-45" even. Its that they put C F Martin's name on it that makes it fraud. There are some exceptionally fine mandolin builders who have produced "Gibson Lloyd Loar F5" mandolins on the same basis. Many accounts indicate that they are equal to or better than the originals, but they are still counterfeits and they are still committing fraud.

[PorchPicker]

I sure wouldn't buy one for the very fact that it IS made in China. Being a American icon counterfiet comes in a close second. And after reading the comments on the video, this guy is gonna have a hard time lol. And probably rightly so

[dawhealer]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Counterfeit is counterfeit...nothing political about it. Could have been made by one of the best lutheirs in the USA, if he slaps Martin's name on it, it's a counterfeit, plain and simple.

Yep, and counterfeiting is just plain wrong. Doesn't matter who does it.

[jimmy bookout]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

Thanks.

I understand how this might trouble you, even though it's not presented simply as an "OM45 Deluxe", it's a "Schoenberg OM45 Deluxe".

Any other examples...?

Larry,
It's not near as troubling as the counterfeit Martin (which started this thread), it has just always hit me as odd that builders use Martin model designations (or Gibson for that matter). Clearly, it's no big deal to Martin (or Gibson) so I'll drop it.

While we're on the subject (of fake Martins), let me tell you a funny story: Many years ago, I was in a music store talking with their luthier. They had gotten in one of the infamous "lawsuit" Takamines that was severly damaged in shipping. From 10 feet away, these Taks looked just like Martins, so the luthier says "watch this". He walks out of his shop on to the main floor of the store, with the damaged lawsuit Takamine, proclaims in a LOUD voice: "I am SO sick of Martin's crappy quality" and El Kabongs this Takamine into a hundred pieces in front of all the customers. You could hear a pin (and wood pieces) drop.

Jimmy

PS. I know you're old enough to remember El Kabong (and I apologize for pointing that out)!

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by jimmy bookout

Larry,
It's not near as troubling as the counterfeit Martin (which started this thread), it has just always hit me as odd that builders use Martin model designations (or Gibson for that matter). Clearly, it's no big deal to Martin (or Gibson) so I'll drop it.

While we're on the subject (of fake Martins), let me tell you a funny story: Many years ago, I was in a music store talking with their luthier. They had gotten in one of the infamous "lawsuit" Takamines that was severly damaged in shipping. From 10 feet away, these Taks looked just like Martins, so the luthier says "watch this". He walks out of his shop on to the main floor of the store, with the damaged lawsuit Takamine, proclaims in a LOUD voice: "I am SO sick of Martin's crappy quality" and El Kabongs this Takamine into a hundred pieces in front of all the customers. You could hear a pin (and wood pieces) drop.

Jimmy

PS. I know you're old enough to remember El Kabong (and I apologize for pointing that out)!

Yes, I *am* old enough to (fondly) remember the El Kabong/Quick-Draw McGraw cartoons.

Another parallel story:

I lived in a house with three other guys my junior year in college (1976), and we were friends with folks that rented the house across the street. Oftentimes I would be out on the front-porch playing guitar, and the across-the-street friends would come over.

One day I brought home (from the guitar-shop I helped out at) a guitar that had been the victim of some domestic abuse...the entire back was caved in (the owner, when told it couldn't be repaired left it on the counter and walked out)...but the front looked normal. I pulled it out and was mimicking playing, and our friends saw me and started to head over. I jumped up with a shout and (you know the rest) took the guitar and smashed it on the porch-ledge, and then started jumping up and down on it...they froze in place, and we all had a good-laugh a few moments later!

[jimmy bookout]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

Yes, I *am* old enough to (fondly) remember the El Kabong/Quick-Draw McGraw cartoons.

Another parallel story:

I lived in a house with three other guys my junior year in college (1976), and we were friends with folks that rented the house across the street. Oftentimes I would be out on the front-porch playing guitar, and the across-the-street friends would come over.

One day I brought home (from the guitar-shop I helped out at) a guitar that had been the victim of some domestic abuse...the entire back was caved in (the owner, when told it couldn't be repaired left it on the counter and walked out)...but the front looked normal. I pulled it out and was mimicking playing, and our friends saw me and started to head over. I jumped up with a shout and (you know the rest) took the guitar and smashed it on the porch-ledge, and then started jumping up and down on it...they froze in place, and we all had a good-laugh a few moments later!

Something like this, perhaps.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eh2KPGBHMM

Sorry for the hijack to the OP.

Jimmy

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by jimmy bookout

Something like this, perhaps.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eh2KPGBHMM

Sorry for the hijack to the OP.

Jimmy

One of many "favorite scenes" from Animal House...thanks!

Exactly like that (in fact, it *was* a nylon string guitar), but I played both the Stephen Bishop and John Belushi parts!

[darrinc]

Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. If this guitar was advertised as being CT scanned and replicated to be a D-45 but with its own brand I'd consider it. Any company that has the ability to fully replicate the build of a D-45 using modern analytical techniques and manufacturing processes and are using premium woods then their understanding of a guitar is decent enough to warrant my attention.
If they are fraudulently using someone else's name then they are scammers not imitators no matter how good their copy is. Supporting counterfeit products is a dangerous game. Fake gold bullion (gold electroplated tungsten) is being sold overseas. Fake gold bullion is showing up in the reserves of many countries. It affects all of us.
Go out and buy a well made imitation but please stay away from these.