Spliting the money and duties??

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by Wyllys

This is why there are so many solo performers...

That, and $150 for 2 hrs (plus all the driving and setup time) is hard to make it worthwhile if splitting it more than one-way. Those I know who do it for this price (and that's quite a few) REALLY do it for the love, more so than the money.

[Wyllys]

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

That, and $150 for 2 hrs (plus all the driving and setup time) is hard to make it worthwhile if splitting it more than one-way. Those I know who do it for this price (and that's quite a few) REALLY do it for the love, more so than the money.

I wasn't going to comment on the wage scale as it varies from market to market, but for me the amount of money in question is about half what I need for a solo.
Of course if it's a regular gig and a decent relationship with the venue there's more value than just the money, but if it's a one-off...I'd pass.

[TwinandTwang]

I have been fortunate to play with people I really like. We are each better at some things than the other. I am better at doing sound and hosting rehearsals. They are better at singing, writing and PR. It all works out for me. I don't mind. Sometimes they pay me extra for pa duties but I feel it's just my contribution to the sum of the parts.

[BluesCam]

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

That, and $150 for 2 hrs (plus all the driving and setup time) is hard to make it worthwhile if splitting it more than one-way. Those I know who do it for this price (and that's quite a few) REALLY do it for the love, more so than the money.

Yes, the money sxxxx. Obviously, it's not worth it, if you are doing it for just the money. That's why I would like more of a share of the work load. I like to play, so I guess I should just take it or leave it. thanks.

[BluesCam]

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

That, and $150 for 2 hrs (plus all the driving and setup time) is hard to make it worthwhile if splitting it more than one-way. Those I know who do it for this price (and that's quite a few) REALLY do it for the love, more so than the money.

Agreed. Thank you.

[DenverSteve]

The money, even $150 per gig, is very important for many players. Playing 4 days a week every week amounts to $31,200 as your base. That is just below the median American individual income. Then add in tips, that most people make, can easily more than double that. It is in fact a business. It's the "business" of anyone who is playing hoping to do more and bigger venues and events. If someone doesn't feel their share of the effort is being rewarded, it needs to be addressed and changed. I play for the love of playing but don't play for free. I can do that in any park, street, couch or with any friend. When you're loading in and out and transporting gear for a gig, money is important.

[Goat Mick]

Originally Posted by BluesCam

Thanks for all of the good insight. I will try to respond to the questions
that some of you had. We are approaching our first paid gig. It's $150 with food and drinks for 2 hours. My partner asked me what it paid so I told him and he said "good, $75 apiece." I consider us to be a team, but I think he looks at it as "me with a sideman." I do not want to play solo. Maybe after this gig I'll say: "from now on I think anyone who books a gig should get 10 or 15% off the top. I guess I am going to need to find some lighter PA cabinets... Thanks again.

Really it's all in the approach especially with his "I'm a sideman" outlook (that is definitely not a bad thing either). When you book a gig work out the details and instead of it being a "group" tell your friend "hey I've got a show here on this night, I'll give you $50 to back me up on guitar". That way he's a hired gun who doesn't have to do anything but show up and play. If you keep approaching it as "you're a group" then it's 50/50 or nothing. I've got a good friend who is an extremely talented player that I used to do a duo with (50/50) but now I've got several irons in the fire and when I can use him I tell him when, where and how much he gets for playing and he's happy with the arrangement. But I make sure the amount I pay him is fair and for some gigs that does turn out to be 50% but for really good paying gigs I might get to keep up to 75% and still pay him fairly for his performance. It's all about approach.

[Wyllys]

Or you could just consider that the bar has been set and give him $75 for every gig from now on...

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by BluesCam

Thank you all for your replies. This is interesting insight from other players.
The amount of money is not the issue, really. It's about teamwork. The partner is also a friend. I guess I just have that "I have to do everything" feeling. The other issue I didn't mention is that he doesn't like to practice and once a week is all he can manage. But, he works full time and I don't. We both love to play live, so we have that in common. If I can get him to help load the PA, then the money becomes secondary. He has told me "I am not going to book the jobs, I'm just a guitar player." I think his view is that he is just a hired gun. Again, thanks for the input!

You have gotten a lot of valuable input already.

Just so you can take what I say in context, I am half a duo and the fee we receive is very similar to ya'll. Sometimes more, sometimes less. My partner also happens to be my wife and we each have different strengths/roles and pull our own weight accordingly.

I also used to be in a full Blues band (MANY years ago), so i understand the loading out/in frustration.

Is the equipment being used appropriate or is it overkill for the venues you play? I am a great believer in small and easy to move/set up equipment.

We have a small, regular PA, but always use the Cube Street Ex. I also use the Fender Passport Mini on many solo gigs. Surprising performance.

I'm in my mid 50's and one of my old band mates wants to start doing some gigs either w/me as a duo or with my wife and I. He used to be a bass player, so 2 15's" and 4 10"s were almost standard for him. Even when playing guitar he always used to want 2 10's and one 15". He has seen us set up and break down and now appreciates the advantage that the smaller equipment provide. You lose some clarity and bass, but you save yourself a lot of extra work.

True friendships are worth more than the difference a 40/60 split will provide.

My advice? Do the extra work. Get smaller equipment. Keep making music and having fun. Split 50/50. Pack it yourself, but ask him to help load in and out, or not - with smaller equipment you may find it a total non-issue. Don't sweat the small stuff, 'cause small stuff don't make you sweat as much.

Feel free to PM me if you want.

[jomaynor]

Originally Posted by 00-28

So you own the PA, you practice at your place and choose the play list. So, that's your stuff, not really a big deal. What really bothers you is that he doesn't help with the booking. Your an adult, I think the two of you can work it out, if not, move on. Hope this helps.
Kind of reminds me of Simon and Garfunkel. All Art had to do was sing and poor Paul had to sing and play guitar. How messed up is that? No wonder they finally broke up.
......Mike

If this guy can sing like Art Garfunkel, then 50% is a bargain.

If he sings like Paul Simon (without contributing anything else), then 50% is imbalanced.

[Nama Ensou]

Originally Posted by Earl49

I took extra shares for booking and providing the PA system, which I already had. So three shares for me out of the total (usually 10-12). Everyone was always happy to play (and collect) when good old Earl did all the work of setting up the gig, but strangely no one was ever around for load in or load out, and when I had to put the stuff back in storage at home.

...if a 1099 was involved it was always my name on the form.

Yep, exactly. It's your gear, you haul it. We'll use it, but we're such good friends that you're on your own buddy.

Okay, I'll take an extra cut then, because fair is fair.

Originally Posted by Earl49

I eventually tired of doing 95% of the work, leading the songs, committing to be there (it was optional for most individuals in the group but they liked playing out) and then giving away most of the proceeds. So I started claiming more...
No one objected when I claimed extra shares, recognizing how much work was involved other than simply showing up to play.

Just talking about things generally gets it done.

[Nama Ensou]

Originally Posted by RustyAxe

You are doing the booking ... and you set the rate. When a gig comes up just tell your partner that it's going to pay him X dollars, and that's that. He either wants the gig or doesn't. No need to tell him what the gig is paying YOU. If he acts like a hired gun, treat him that way.

This is exactly what I used to do. I asked each player how much they expected for a nights pay, and gave it to them. My actual partner and I made more than the hired hands, but we were the ones putting in all the effort on booking, promo and supplying the equipment, including the drums and pa system.

[Nama Ensou]

Originally Posted by BluesCam

I just have that "I have to do everything" feeling. The other issue I didn't mention is that he doesn't like to practice and once a week is all he can manage. But, he works full time and I don't. We both love to play live, so we have that in common. If I can get him to help load the PA, then the money becomes secondary. He has told me "I am not going to book the jobs, I'm just a guitar player." I think his view is that he is just a hired gun.

It definitely sounds like you do have to do everything, and if he's a self-admitted hired gun, you should set what his price is.

I'm just a guitar player, you supply all the equipment and do all the work, but give me half just doesn't fly in my book.

Originally Posted by BluesCam

We are approaching our first paid gig. It's $150 with food and drinks for 2 hours. My partner asked me what it paid so I told him and he said "good, $75 apiece." I consider us to be a team, but I think he looks at it as "me with a sideman." I do not want to play solo. Maybe after this gig I'll say: "from now on I think anyone who books a gig should get 10 or 15% off the top. I guess I am going to need to find some lighter PA cabinets... Thanks again.

You should be getting $100 and giving him $50 plus food and drinks. You supplied the gig, the equipment and he sees himself as a sideman to what you could already do by yourself.

When you say the word friends, it sounds like your more the friend than he is if he doesn't see your doing more work, and spending more on equipment, doesn't qualify you for more money. And again, you'll be paying the taxes all by yourself.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

The money, even $150 per gig, is very important for many players. Playing 4 days a week every week amounts to $31,200 as your base.

Until you split it 50/50.

But, yes, if you have a day job that's flexible enough to allow you to do this, too, it can certainly be a nice addition to your income.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by Nama Ensou

And again, you'll be paying the taxes all by yourself.

That's a definite consideration, if you're playing places often enough that they give you a 1099 (or if you're 100% honest and report all your pay, and including tips).

At the very least, you'd want to make sure to keep your own books and keep track of the pay you're giving to your partner . . that counts as an expense to you. And then who pays the bookkeeper and all that kinda stuff?