A 1/16th

[Malcolm Kindnes]

It depends to some extent on how you play, but it makes a huge difference to me. Also string spacing at the saddle and overall neck shape are very important.

[tadol]

A wide neck that doesn’t adjust the string spacing doesn’t help - I’ve played guitars with nuts spaced as though they were 1-11/16, and all the extra real estate on the edges of the fingerboard doesn’t help. And I’ve played narrow neck guitars that the nut has been cut with wide spacing, and getting those strings too close to the edge of the fingerboard is no help either, and on short scale the strings slip over the edge way too easily. There is a correct amount of space needed at the edges, and then the spacing string to string is the deal. The best example of this is a 2015 LP that came with a 1-⅞” neck, but the nut was the same as they used on the 1-11/16 necks. Once I got a new nut made for it, I loved the feel of the guitar -

[LawrenceMollard]

Put one piece of paper in between your thumb and finger and then put two pieces of paper the same way, you will notice the difference very clearly.

My point is your hands are very, very precise tools.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by min7b5

Yes. I absolutely feel a big (to me) difference.

Yikes. How?! I sure can't. If I wanted to measure, I'd need a ruler. To me, the three sizes are pencil-neck geek (my seventies Gibson LG-0), Louisville slugger (my forties Gibson ES-150), and woodshed standard time (everything in between).

They're all fun to play, of course. Setup is another story. A sketchy setup makes me crazy.

[Guitars44me]

Originally Posted by LawrenceMollard

Put one piece of paper in between your thumb and finger and then put two pieces of paper the same way, you will notice the difference very clearly.

My point is your hands are very, very precise tools.

Not everyone can feel the difference, but many can!

A Card Sharp can tell if there’s 52 cards in a deck, and some folks can measure a stack of 100 dollar bills and tell you if there’s 100.

Fortunately, guitars come in an infinite variety of configurations, so if you’re willing to do the work, you can find a guitar that’ll fit you.

Play what feels good to YOU and have fun doing it!

Paul

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by LawrenceMollard

Put one piece of paper in between your thumb and finger and then put two pieces of paper the same way, you will notice the difference very clearly.

My point is your hands are very, very precise tools.

Yeahbut! That's a hundred-percent difference. Add more pages. Can you really tell whether the pages of a book add up to 2 1/4" and not 2 5/16"?

Go measure the pages of a couple of books with your fingers, then use a ruler to see how accurate your fingers were.

I sure can't do it. Can't with a guitar neck, either.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by Guitars44me

. . . Fortunately, guitars come in an infinite variety of configurations, so if you’re willing to do the work, you can find a guitar that’ll fit you.

Play what feels good to YOU and have fun doing it!

Paul

I haven't found one that doesn't fit me. (Ref. post 34.)

Having long, thin fingers isn't good for everything, but it's good for playing stringed instruments — guitar, mandolin, bass: They all feel good.

[fazool]

Quoted from UM

Human fingertips are remarkably sensitive. They can communicate details of an object as small as 40μm (about half the width of a human hair), discern subtle differences in surface textures, and apply just enough force to lift either an egg, or a 20 lb. bag of dog food without slipping.

[j38guitar]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

For me nut width is the most critical,
1 & 11/16" "rhythm" necks - no good, 1 & 3/4" at a pinch, 1 & 13/16" ideal.
Neck depth and profile also significant.
KString spacing - 2 & 1/4" no good, 2 5/16th Ok on short scale (24.875") , 2 & 3/8" ideal on standard scale (25.5").

These measurements may look strange to you 14 fret users, and this is why all my flat tops are 12 fretters.

I find it interesting when someone can claim a 1 11/16 is a rhythm guitar because it doesn't work for a particular person. I can fingerpick just fine with a 1 11/16. Guitarist like Julian Lage and John Mayer also play 1 11/16, they are definitely not rhythm players. In my opinion play what ever is comfortable to you..


To the OP, I can feel the difference but I can play almost any guitar and adapt to it. I go from my 1 11/16 guitar to my 2" classical and some how I adapt to it. Same goes with different scale lengths. I don't really worry about the numbers on the spec sheets, I find is best to actually play the guitar and find out if it bothers you.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by j38guitar

I find it interesting when someone can claim a 1 11/16 is a rhythm guitar because it doesn't work for a particular person. . . .

Yup. A guitar is a guitar: made to be played. It's one thing to say one feels different than another. It's another to say something can't be played — or played well.

Hand size and shape matter, of course. Small hands don't like fat necks, thick fingers don't like skinny necks. And that must be what drives some players to various size necks.

Beyond that, it's just a matter of being flexible. In every sense.

[j38guitar]

Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein

Yup. A guitar is a guitar: made to be played. It's one thing to say one feels different than another. It's another to say something can't be played — or played well.

Hand size and shape matter, of course. Small hands don't like fat necks, thick fingers don't like skinny necks. And that must be what drives some players to various size necks.

Beyond that, it's just a matter of being flexible. In every sense.

Exactly.

Electric guitars are basically 1 11/16 and many fat fingers manage to shred on them. Same goes with classical guitars, kids manage to play them. I played a classical guitar at the age of 9

[LawrenceMollard]

Originally Posted by Guitars44me

Not everyone can feel the difference, but many can!

A Card Sharp can tell if there’s 52 cards in a deck, and some folks can measure a stack of 100 dollar bills and tell you if there’s 100.

Fortunately, guitars come in an infinite variety of configurations, so if you’re willing to do the work, you can find a guitar that’ll fit you.

Play what feels good to YOU and have fun doing it!

Paul

Good point, Paul, and it's not like you have to be a slave to the measurement, you will also adapt to what the guitar is.

My point with saying that is, if your hands are telling you something, don't doubt them- if you think there's a difference there is a difference.

[Guitars44me]

Especially if it plays good.

Feel Doesn’t matter if it doesn’t sound great… but, obviously you can’t always tell that at first. Maybe it needs a set up maybe it needs different strings maybe it needs a different owner ha ha ha ha

Really, if it doesn’t feel good it probably won’t feel any better as time goes on…

But sometimes, stuff happens.

Laurence, I was not trying to quibble with ya!

Play what feels good and sounds good and have fun doing it.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by j38guitar

I find it interesting when someone can claim a 1 11/16 is a rhythm guitar because it doesn't work for a particular person. I can fingerpick just fine with a 1 11/16. Guitarist like Julian Lage and John Mayer also play 1 11/16, they are definitely not rhythm players. In my opinion play what ever is comfortable to you..


To the OP, I can feel the difference but I can play almost any guitar and adapt to it. I go from my 1 11/16 guitar to my 2" classical and some how I adapt to it. Same goes with different scale lengths. I don't really worry about the numbers on the spec sheets, I find is best to actually play the guitar and find out if it bothers you.

This thread is getting a little "snarky" - not helpful in this conversation, anymore than comparing me with Tony Rice (which I wouldn't dream of doing myself).

I am an old man with old fingers which whilst not that remarkable have rather flat finger tips. This means that a wider fretboard (wider string spacing) suits me better, and I didn't really learn this until 1996 ish after buying a Martin J-40 with a 1 & 11/16" nut AND a very shallow neck and then when offered a play on D35-S with a 1 & 7/8" nut which made my style so much more accurate. It took me three years of hunting the UK, EU and USA for the right guitar geometry, which was my first 12 fret dread by Collings (DS2h).

That experience does not apply to anybody else ... but it might.

It is also why I only play 12 fret guitars built on pre "rhythm" or "OM" stylings.

Lets now tackle the "rhythm" thing.

Guitars went through radical changes of use in the late '20s and early thirties as music styles changed.

From 1902 until 1929 the largest Martin was the 000 Auditorium. It had a 1 & 7/8" nut width, and was the first guitar to have the longer scale of 25.4" (I don't have precise details of the string spacing but I believe it was 2 & 3/8"

In 1929, Martin "modified" their largest guitar (the 000) to have a 14 fret thinner neck for a BANJO player called Perry Bechtel, who, like may others in the Dixieland bands had to move to guitar as the "pop" music styles changed to Swing.

Yes the longer and thinner neck was driven by a four string tenor banjo player (!) - and that is why Martin changed to the thinner, longer neck, probably assuming that everyone wanted to play 4 string rhythm styles in dance bands.
Of course Gibson was way ahead with their archtops which were far better suited to that genre, hence the style demonstrated so well by Freddie Green who rarely or never used all six strings.

Whilst it is frequently thought that fingerstylists prefer a wider fretboard and strings spacing and strummers or even flat pickers will prefer a longer (14 fret) thinner 1 & 11/16" or even thinner) there are ALWAYS exceptions.

Frinstance: I have a good friend who plays wondrous and creative fingerstyle and, and refers the opposite to me.

See:

We are all different and develop our playing styles and approaches differently.

That's why I made this video - and please also read the comment from a luthier!

So, let;s not be snarky - as this subject is important and making folks aware that there ARE choices.

I thank you.

[j38guitar]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

This thread is getting a little "snarky" - not helpful in this conversation, anymore than comparing me with Tony Rice (which I wouldn't dream of doing myself).

I am an old man with old fingers which whilst not that remarkable have rather flat finger tips. This means that a wider fretboard (wider string spacing) suits me better, and I didn't really learn this until 1996 ish after buying a Martin J-40 with a 1 & 11/16" nut AND a very shallow neck and then when offered a play on D35-S with a 1 & 7/8" nut which made my style so much more accurate. It took me three years of hunting the UK, EU and USA for the right guitar geometry, which was my first 12 fret dread by Collings (DS2h).

That experience does not apply to anybody else ... but it might.

It is also why I only play 12 fret guitars built on pre "rhythm" or "OM" stylings.

Lets now tackle the "rhythm" thing.

Guitars went through radical changes of use in the late '20s and early thirties as music styles changed.

From 1902 until 1929 the largest Martin was the 000 Auditorium. It had a 1 & 7/8" nut width, and was the first guitar to have the longer scale of 25.4" (I don't have precise details of the string spacing but I believe it was 2 & 3/8"

In 1929, Martin "modified" their largest guitar (the 000) to have a 14 fret thinner neck for a BANJO player called Perry Bechtel, who, like may others in the Dixieland bands had to move to guitar as the "pop" music styles changed to Swing.

Yes the longer and thinner neck was driven by a four string tenor banjo player (!) - and that is why Martin changed to the thinner, longer neck, probably assuming that everyone wanted to play 4 string rhythm styles in dance bands.
Of course Gibson was way ahead with their archtops which were far better suited to that genre, hence the style demonstrated so well by Freddie Green who rarely or never used all six strings.

Whilst it is frequently thought that fingerstylists prefer a wider fretboard and strings spacing and strummers or even flat pickers will prefer a longer (14 fret) thinner 1 & 11/16" or even thinner) there are ALWAYS exceptions.

Frinstance: I have a good friend who plays wondrous and creative fingerstyle and, and refers the opposite to me.

See:

We are all different and develop our playing styles and approaches differently.

That's why I made this video - and please also read the comment from a luthier!

So, let;s not be snarky - as this subject is important and making folks aware that there ARE choices.

I thank you.

It was not snarky comment. more so a comment saying that a 1 11/16 is not just a rhythm guitar. Fenders strats are basically 1 11/16 and they are not rhythm guitars. I personally don't have a preference between 1 11/16 and 1 3/4, I can play them same the same. My fingers adapt very easy. But I know some people can't adapt so easily that is why I recommended OP to try out guitar and not base it on only specs.

I never meant to offend you or compare you to Tony Rice. I actually watch your youtube videos. But to say fingerstyle players only play a certain nut width is incorrect.