Why no guitar weight in specs?

[MaurysMusic]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Because for most guitarists the weight of the instrument is not a consideration. I think most of us vaguely prefer lighter weight guitars, but as deeply as I dive into the details of these instruments I’m not sure what constitutes an exceptionally light guitar.

Since most potential customers don’t ask, the sellers don’t bother to post that information.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

We had a customer a few months ago who asked me to weigh 2 Martin 000-18s. One was .02 Oz lighter and the customer chose that one because it was lighter. The weight difference was THE deciding factor - and the actual pictures she saw - that revealed very different looking tops - didn't mean nearly as much. To each their own, but that was very odd to me as a player.

[Silly Moustache]

I once had two Collings DS2h, identical spec. One was built in 1998, and the other in 2007.
The latter was very obviously heavier - I weighted them one -tangible, bur can no longer remember the difference.

Tone woods vary in mass I guess.

Some brands don't even mention nut widths, string spacing, fretboard radius. neck profile etc.

[Rosewood99]

Unless you’re thinking how it affects sound, what does weight matter? It’s either going to be on a guitar strap or resting on your leg. Does a few ounces make that much difference?

[brencat]

Some dealers like CME and Sweetwater show guitar weight, and I believe it can make or break a sale. As such, most dealers and manufacturers actually have more downside than upside in showing this spec, mostly because of the prevailing belief among enthusiasts that a lighter guitar is more resonant and more desirable.

Full disclosure, I have a ~ 4.5 lb top on any guitar I will own. I don't play electric, and find heavy instruments fatiguing to hold. So this is actually a very important topic to me personally.

[catndahats]

Good question, and answers:
* my favorite is "because they don't read AGF"
* most honest answer is "each guitar is different" even from the same builder/model.
* some builders are known for light guitars---Santa Cruz comes to mind. And then there is a post today about a heavy Collings D2ha (but mine is light). Over the years I've asked and read wonders if a guitar is too light will it be well constructed?---so the river flows both ways.

Now I am curious if I would be able to rank/discern the weight variation if I lined up 3 identical model guitars without a scale? Could you discern an over hydrated model versus one that needs to be humidified?

[Bob Womack]

Whenever I look t this thread's title it appears as "Why no guitar weight in space." That provokes the expected response in me. "Um... Duh!"

But really, wood. Wood is absolutely variable. You can play two guitars of the same model and perceive the difference in weight between them without a scale. It doesn't belong in a manufacturer's specifications but is easy enough for a dealer to list when it comes down to a particular example.

Bob

[maxed]

If you had a slender neck and all those curves,

You wouldn't want your weight advertised, now would you?

[Sadie-f]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

I think that I tend to judge a guitar by its resonance rather than the overall weight. I like to feel the neck of the guitar kicking in my hand when I play. Because then I know the guitar is "working". I have played some very light but dead guitars and some heavier canons.

I'm not sure that a published overall weight is even a good starting point for assessing a guitar's resonance.

BTW. My lightest guitar is my 16" lower bout cherry plywood, maple neck Godin 5th Avenue acoustic archtop. It only has two braces in the whole guitar, it is the arch shaping and plywood that provide stiffness. That guitar jumps around like a buzz saw when I play it - but I don't think that it is the weight that is the prime factor. It is the overall design, construction and materials that matters.

I'm absolutely certain weight isn't the point, sure it's going to affect resonance, and a fundamental (pun intended) element. What is fundamental is the stiffness of the various tone woods and that in turn is directly affected by thickness and of course the bracing design.

There may be other luthiers / factories with the reputation for building a lighter than normal guitar, the only one I know is SCGC, weight is even addressed in their FAQ, and I've read fears of guitarists that Santa Cruz instruments might be more fragile due to this.

The point to me isn't the overall weight, it's a design that puts material (only) where it's needed for strength, while optimizing for a chosen tone. That, in turn seems likely to result in a low mass overall design.

I don't know if any among the individual or small factories use designs that get a similar low weight result. However, referencing that FAQ, SCGC talks about tuning the neck resonance and its contribution to the overall tone, by among other things, adjusting the weight to peghead.

Point of interest, aircraft and especially missiles use nose ballast for flight dynamics, often using depleted uranium for it's very high density.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Whenever I look t this thread's title it appears as "Why no guitar weight in space." That provokes the expected response in me. "Um... Duh!"

Bob

But that begs the question ....if I play Moondance on the Dark Side of the Moon will it weight less ??????????????????????

Seriously ....For me it is a consideration in electrics ,,acoustics not so much....

[Dotneck]

Originally Posted by Martyn Eden

Why don't guitar manufacturers put the weight of the instrument on the specs?…
Many other products supply this information as a matter of course. Why not guitars?

A manufacturer can’t list weights because each individual guitar (of each model) is different. They would have to list each serial number and each weight. Then you would have to search the list to find the individual guitar you are considering…

[QuestionMark]

My Martin had its weight listed in the specs ahead of when I bought it new. So did a couple of Epiphones when I purchased them. So, apparently some manufacturers list weight, I guess.

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

[KevinH]

Originally Posted by Dotneck

A manufacturer can’t list weights because each individual guitar (of each model) is different. They would have to list each serial number and each weight. Then you would have to search the list to find the individual guitar you are considering…

True mostly for the larger distributors, that may have multiple copies of a guitar model. But the mid- to higher-end shops, like Eddies for example, show the list of specs that usually come printed out with a guitar. In my experience the spec sheets generally don't list weight, so some online stores don't list it. Other shops, like Dream Guitars, show the weight, which they probably measured themselves.

Personally if I were choosing between copies of one model, I wouldn't care about weight. But when I'm considering a guitar I've not been able to play it would be nice to have an idea if its a beast or a feather.

[Dru Edwards]

I rarely hear the discussion come up about acoustic guitar weights but on electric the discussion is common. Big difference between a ~8 lbs Les Paul vs 10+ lbs. That can kill your shoulder in a gig.

As mentioned, there are some retailers that are now posting weights. I like it. Although I've weighed all my acoustics (and electrics), the weight of an acoustic won't impact my decision to buy based on shoulder comfort.

[LakewoodM32Fan]

Total weight and "lightly built" have some correlation, obviously, but are not necessarily related in a linear fashion.

Tonewoods make a huge difference in weight. Take cocobolo for example. Prized by many (including myself) for its sound...it's a heavy wood. A lightly built Santa Cruz OM with cocobolo is going to weigh substantially more than a lightly built SCGC OM with Mahogany.

And also "lightly built" has some correlation, but isn't a guarantee of, an extremely resonant instrument (which is one aspect most people who are going for lightly built guitars are going for). I've played many lightly built guitars that are extremely resonant, and I've played quite a few that aren't.

Even with the same tonewood combinations, certain luthiers may thickness their tops (and back/sides) differently based on a particular piece of wood based on its age, grain structure, etc. So a builder, based on their many years of experience, may feel that for one particular piece of Adirondack spruce, it may need to be thicknessed differently from another piece of Adirondack, to achieve the tone and resonance they're going for. So this may result in being a few ounces more/less than another Adi topped guitar from the same builder, but just because it's heavier or lighter isn't necessarily an indication that it's more/less resonant.

And also neck thicknesses will play a part as well, so a model with a chunkier neck will be heavier than one with a slimmer neck, but the body of the "heavier" model may...if measured separately...be lighter than the body of the slimmer neck model.

Which is all a longwinded way of saying total weight as a stat is a relatively poor indicator of overall quality/tonality/resonance. And you really have to play each instrument to get a sense of it. If you're after a high end guitar and can't travel to play it, I've never had a problem emailing any respectable dealer and having them send me a video/sound file.

Of course some dealers may not be as willing to spend the time with standard Martin X series or Taylor 100 or 200 series, but if you're concerned about weight and the other factors...you're probably not looking at those models.

[nuchdig]

As mentioned above, some retailers do list weights. Interesting to see the variation in the same model. I still remember buying my first all solid wood guitar and thinking "this is too light to be a quality instrument." I had been playing lam b & s with heavy poly finish overbuilt dudes. "No way this light guitar can hold up." Now, when I pick up a heavy guitar I think "no way this thing is any good."