$3-$5K range: production vs. custom

[bajawatt]

Sub 750
Yamaha

Originally Posted by Ilovetaylors

After buying guitars for almost 12 years now....I have a formula.

1-3k
taylors, martins, gibsons........

4-7 k
santa cruz, collins, bourgeois, older martins

8k and up
luthier's hand made from a established sponsor here. (mcknight, mayes, sexauer, sharp, simon fey and etc, so many to name)

15k and up

that's why your hitting the olsons and ryans......

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by Ilovetaylors

After buying guitars for almost 12 years now....I have a formula.

1-3k
taylors, martins, gibsons........

4-7 k
santa cruz, collins, bourgeois, older martins

8k and up
luthier's hand made from a established sponsor here. (mcknight, mayes, sexauer, sharp, simon fey and etc, so many to name)

15k and up

that's why your hitting the olsons and ryans......

I have a lot of agreement with this, however I'd consider some overlap. I think the luthier's hand made range should go down to $4K; even without taking huge risks with luthiers who don't have years of experience. If you stay with their standard features, or basic no-frills models, you can find hand built guitars in the $4K to $5K range from experienced luthiers.

[Broadus]

More variables must be considered with a custom, it seems to me. Like Rich, I love the Martin sound. Considering budget limitations into the foreseeable future, and at age 56 this earthly future seems shorter all the time , I will be surprised to find myself moving beyond my OM-21. Had I $5000 and felt free to spend it on a guitar, I would definitely have to have a talk with Tim McKnight, though.

[El Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Broadus

Like Rich, I love the Martin sound.

I do not love the Martin sound. So, as I responded to an earlier thread about going smaller to address playability issues, I will restate my opinion that, particularlay when it comes to ergonomic factors, a custom is the way to go. You can spec things like Manzer wedges, short scale etc. that simply not all going to be available on any factory model.

So, if you are not married to a factory brand sound, and I most definitly am not, then there are lots of individual builders who will give you everything and more for under $5k.

Check out the Brondel thread. His Esential is a truly exceptional guitar that can be had for under $5k.

Steve

[Olli Dangendorf]

I would say it depends on the instrument. I have had some great luthier-built guitars in my hands and on the other hand a 10 k guitar that i would not spend 2 k on.....and on the other side some great sounding production guitars....

[robj144]

Originally Posted by Landru

My thought is that a custom build from a small house would be available beginning at the $5,000 mark. Below that, I'd go large house or production.

What about someone like Joel Stehr? His base price is $3600 or $3700 I believe, so you can get a few options and it will still be below $5,000.

Or how about Batson? They're Bastons #5 starts at $2800 I believe.

[bohemian]

"Custom" is a crap-shoot. I've been there a few times and I'll never do it again..unless it's from Martin, Collings, Santa Cruz.
Why ?.. known entity.. consistency .

[Ilovetaylors]

I upgraded my list.


After buying guitars for almost 12 years now....I have a formula.

1-3k
taylors, martins, gibsons........

4-7 k
santa cruz, collins, bourgeois, older martins, goodalls, some luthiers.

8k and up
luthier's hand made from a established sponsor here. (mcknight, mayes, sexauer, sharp, simon fey, kraut and etc, so many to name, just look on the right side of the sponsors list.)

15k and up

that's why your hitting the olsons and ryans, somoygi, traugott$$

[jseth]

Having played the same hand-made instrument for the past 32 years, I don't think I could go back (or would go back) to playing guitars that were mass-produced... and, in 1979, my Mark Angus cost me $800 w/ case. She's #35 and has gone way past any expectations I had about how I want a guitar to sound. She's been through the mill, too' traveled all over the states and Hawaii, gigged a whole bunch, out in the sun and in the cold... and she's still going strong!

Mark is still building them, one at a time, per order... I don't imagine he's past #400 yet, and last I spoke with him, he was going to "make a deal" with a fellow to build him a new one for approx. $3500... (he's at the Guitar Shoppe, Laguna Beach, CA., by the way)

James Goodall makes an "Aloha" model, available in all his current shapes and sizes; it's a no-frills guitar - koa or mahogany b/s, koa/sitka/mahogany tops. I believe they are in the $3500 range, as well, and there is NO sacrifice in build quality; I've played a parlor, standard (dread) and Concert Jumbo Aloha, and they were ALL stellar instruments.

Once a player KNOWS what he wants, what he likes... a custom build is going to get you a lot closer to that ideal than a higher volume company's efforts...

...my opinion, of course! I don't have ANYTHING against Martin, Gibson or Taylor; I have played wonderful guitars from all of those, and other manufacturer's offerings, as well... just takes more time to find a great one, and it's likely that you'll still have to "settle"...

play on................................................ ...>

John Seth Sherman

[nacluth]

I think there's plenty of "established" luthiers who sell in the 4-7k range no problem.

[patticake]

i expect because one of the big production houses makes the guitar they love. if i could play dreads comfortably, and had the funds, i wouldn't hesitate to pick up a gibson jackson browne - the one i played sounded truly amazing.

Originally Posted by learner

Rondeauboy's post on the Guild D-55 reminded me of something I've wondered about occasionally. When someone has let's say $3-$5K to spend why do they spend it on a higher-end guitar from one of the big production houses instead of a custom built? Conceivably, wouldn't they get closer to exactly what they want with a custom built? Is it a deep affection for a certain brand? I know there are many here who have done both. I'm curious about what factors drove the decision. Thanks!

[$ongWriter]

I'd get two used Bourgeois, or Santa Cruz or Huss & Daltons...one would be a big ole dred and one would be something smaller...really, that's all you'll ever need!!...except of course a graphite guitar for those bad weather situations!

[drcmusic7]

I think you can get a really nice luthier built guitar in the 3k-5k price range. A couple luthiers come to mind: Batson's No.5 model, David Webber and David Taylor (DT Guitars). That said, if you're looking for a more readily made guitar, Bourgeois, Santa Cruz, etc make wonderful instruments. The recent Martin's in that range have been equally great (i'm a fan of their Golden Era guitars). If you take your time and shop around you can even get a wonderful used guitar in that price range.

Please take your time and see what works best for you.

Kindly,
Danny

[drbluegrass]

Originally Posted by $ongWriter

I'd get two used Bourgeois, or Santa Cruz or Huss & Daltons...one would be a big ole dred and one would be something smaller...really, that's all you'll ever need!!...except of course a graphite guitar for those bad weather situations!

I really don't think this is far off the mark. One question you need to answer before spending a large amount of cash is...Are the 8K+ guitars really better than a good 4K-7K guitar?
Since they are well known for tenacious consistency in quality and tone I'll just use Collings as an example. Even an off the shelf "standard" Collings D-1A or D-2HA is a formidable guitar. Probably even better than a lot of folks realize. Almost always outstanding tone and fit and finish. Same with corresponding Huss & Daltons, Santa Cruz, and other "large/small shop" guitars. Back to my original question...Are most 8K+ guitars truly, genuinely, better in tone and craftsmanship than most 4K-7K guitars? And I mean truly? I have a strong suspicion that many of them are not and a good number of them are what I call "feel good" guitars. You know, the more I spend the better I feel? This will not will not win me any popularity contests but at this point in my 5 decade guitar buying/owning journey it's just what I've experienced. It's not just guitars I've experienced this with but other commodities I've been exposed to over my lifetime.
Now before anyone gets too excited about these comments I'll just say let your ears and eyes be your guide. There are very, very, very, few guitar makes I'd order based on reputation alone. I'd do anything I could to actually get my hands on, play and compare, before ordering any 7K+ guitar. I'm a strong skeptic and have found that hands on playing pays off in eliminating disappointments and even providing some nice surprises. I like to think I have developed as strong an ear for tone and nuance as most players and any 7K+ guitar is going to get my full, complete, scrutiny. And it had better be genuinely, outstandingly, special.
Then there's another question...Is it truly better or just different? Then you may have to decide if "different" is worth the extra outlay?
Notice I didn't say 7K+ guitars are not worth the expenditure. Some may very well be. But I have had the opportunity to compare a few with other guitars in the 4K-7K price range and was left unimpressed by the "big dollar" guitar. I was prepared to purchase my high dollar dream guitar and ended up purchasing a guitar that sounded every bit as good, in every way, for thousands less. A one man shop does not necessarily equal a genuinely superior instrument.
The only advice I can offer is, if at all possible, first use your ears. Not someone else's. I don't care what anyone else says I want to hear it for myself. I'll drive half way across the country to see, hear, and compare a 7K+ guitar. The truly outstanding, cream of the crop, luthiers know who they are but you may not. And chances are if you're going to spend 7K+ for a guitar you'll be able to afford the gas, and perhaps lodging, to do some research.
If you're going to spend 7K+ and you can't afford to do the research you may have no choice but to go by reputation. There are several luthiers with outstanding reps who are members of this very forum. And I'm confident most of them would advise you to use your ears before committing to an order. The really good ones have enough confidence in their skills and will be very comfortable with this.
But remember, the first time you are playing at a gathering/festival where there are numerous guitars and brands and you notice someone's Huss & Dalton sounds better than your one man shop, 9K, "Whatever", it will be a feeling you'll not soon forget.
Bottom line is, all I'm saying is be careful. I think there are undoubtedly guitars worth 7K+ (as compared to what's available in the 4K-7K range). But, IMHO there are a lot fewer of them than people think. That's the skeptic in me. And, you know how to change a skeptic...prove 'em wrong. OK, flame suit on. JMHO, YMMV.


Tom

[Kevin A]

Originally Posted by nacluth

I think there's plenty of "established" luthiers who sell in the 4-7k range no problem.

+1
There's a significant overlap between mid-size shops & custom 'established' luthiers when one gets over the $4000 price range