New guitar issues

[OddManOut]

Originally Posted by grim83

P.s. im trying to get the pictures to show but the forum isnt letting me directly from my iphone.

[redi]

Originally Posted by grim83

chance it can still comeback into spec as playing it in the current state

This would be a first imo without a divine miracle. Most of the F I have looked at have had "normal" neck/bridge angle. It is a puzzle because I really like Yamaha builds and guitars.

[OddManOut]

Low saddles and funky top geometry is exactly why I hesitate to buy most guitars in this price range. Most of the FS3s and FS5s I've seen tend to have lowish saddles...if the neck set is shallow and/or top arc is high, it requires the saddle to be shaved very low.

The pic showing the plane of the fretboard intersecting well below the top of the bridge would be a no-go for me. Just one man's opinion, of course.

Also, the FS3 and FS5s are built lightly. Great for responsiveness, but potentially (but not always) more reactive to changes in humidity.

[CharlieBman]

Originally Posted by lowrider

I don't know what is the cause of the problem but that guitar has got to go back.



And make sure they pay the shipping.

I agree. The action looks way too high and you have little room to correct it. No way I would keep it. Probably just a bad apple. It happens.

[grim83]

Originally Posted by OddManOut

Low saddles and funky top geometry is exactly why I hesitate to buy most guitars in this price range. Most of the FS3s and FS5s I've seen tend to have lowish saddles...if the neck set is shallow and/or top arc is high, it requires the saddle to be shaved very low.

The pic showing the plane of the fretboard intersecting well below the top of the bridge would be a no-go for me. Just one man's opinion, of course.

Also, the FS3 and FS5s are built lightly. Great for responsiveness, but potentially (but not always) more reactive to changes in humidity.

That last part is my hopes that it will correct enough to be workable. Although i would normally be in the return camp, this one just seems to have that certain something so I am hopeful i can turn it around.

[TheGITM]

Originally Posted by grim83

That last part is my hopes that it will correct enough to be workable. Although i would normally be in the return camp, this one just seems to have that certain something so I am hopeful i can turn it around.

That is incredibly, incredibly, almost absolutely unlikely to happen. The neck angle is not likely move back. It is what it is. The bigger question is will it continue to move forward, or is it settled to a position that will not move any more?

You can have the bridge and the saddle shaved down. You don't have a lot of bridge to work with (it's not super thick) but you have some room to lower it. You can also work the saddle down. You could also have someone 'relevel' the fretboard but that would require pulling frets and at that point you might as well look into a neck reset. Last I saw those resets were getting pretty pricey, though.

If you have the option to return it, that is what I would do. Otherwise, you will have to spend some time and more money to get it where you want it...

[grim83]

Originally Posted by TheGITM

That is incredibly, incredibly, almost absolutely unlikely to happen. The neck angle is not likely move back. It is what it is. The bigger question is will it continue to move forward, or is it settled to a position that will not move any more?

You can have the bridge and the saddle shaved down. You don't have a lot of bridge to work with (it's not super thick) but you have some room to lower it. You can also work the saddle down. You could also have someone 'relevel' the fretboard but that would require pulling frets and at that point you might as well look into a neck reset. Last I saw those resets were getting pretty pricey, though.

If you have the option to return it, that is what I would do. Otherwise, you will have to spend some time and more money to get it where you want it...

No the neck angle is what it is, but the belly still being present has me hopeful that as the belly continues to go down the angle wont be as much of a problem as it currently appears. Thats my hope anyway. The belly makes it hard to accurately judge the angle with a straight edge.

Alas a return is still on the table for 44ish days so we shall see after a week or so if it has corrected being in a better climate.

[TheGITM]

Originally Posted by grim83

No the neck angle is what it is, but the belly still being present has me hopeful that as the belly continues to go down the angle wont be as much of a problem as it currently appears. Thats my hope anyway. The belly makes it hard to accurately judge the angle with a straight edge.

Alas a return is still on the table for 44ish days so we shall see after a week or so if it has corrected being in a better climate.

Geometry says that as the bellying behind the bridge drops, the front of the bridge will go up (however slightly). Bellying pushes the bridge up from behind, which slightly drops it in the front. I suspect that as the bellying corrects the bridge angle will get worse, not better.

I'll add that if the guitar reacts that much to humidity you will be fighting with it forever. Humidity should not cause bellying like that with it being so new. There should be some bracing around the bridge to prevent exactly what you are experiencing. Do you have any way to look inside the guitar to check out the braces in that area? Seems to me there is an inherent failure in the guitar design/execution.

Sounds like you have plenty of time to decide. Best of luck!

[12FanMan]

Just wondering....if you receive a new guitar, then take it to a luthier for adjustment, would that void your warranty?

[12FanMan]

Just wondering....if you receive a new guitar, then take it to a luthier for adjustment, would that void your warranty, especially if the luthier is not approved by Yamaha?

[grim83]

Originally Posted by TheGITM

Geometry says that as the bellying behind the bridge drops, the front of the bridge will go up (however slightly). Bellying pushes the bridge up from behind, which slightly drops it in the front. I suspect that as the bellying corrects the bridge angle will get worse, not better.

I'll add that if the guitar reacts that much to humidity you will be fighting with it forever. Humidity should not cause bellying like that with it being so new. There should be some bracing around the bridge to prevent exactly what you are experiencing. Do you have any way to look inside the guitar to check out the braces in that area? Seems to me there is an inherent failure in the guitar design/execution.

Sounds like you have plenty of time to decide. Best of luck!

You raise some very valid points, but as the guitar is settling the action is moving closer back to spec. I know i should probably pull the plug and return it, but this such a nice example (sound wise) im struggling with decision. The hefty discounts i stand to lose (last one in stock, uncertain on when a replacement would be available) dont help either lol

Originally Posted by 12FanMan

Just wondering....if you receive a new guitar, then take it to a luthier for adjustment, would that void your warranty, especially if the luthier is not approved by Yamaha?

Guess that would depend on the manufacturer and what the warranty explicitly states or implies.

[movehome]

I had a local shop order in an fg3 and fg5 recently and they both had fine neck angles and saddle height. However they both had cracks in the top finish.

[kipkohl]

My FS5 also has a low neck angle as measured with a straight edge. My action was a bit high for me with not a ton of saddle height. I dithered about returning, but decided to keep it because it sounded so good. Even though the saddle was already kind of low I went ahead and bought a new Yamaha saddle and sanded it down, lowering the action pretty low. By the new specs the guitar shouldn’t sound great ie; low break angle, string height less than 1/2” above the sound board, but it sounds great now. It doesn’t make sense but it sounds fuller and even more pleasing to my ears. Go figure.

[redi]

I hope in the new F-series Red Label development, the design team didn't copy from old Red Label FG-180 instruments that needed a neck reset

https://youtu.be/CYf7sCdxuG4?si=arYD3E8sUN5Qik-z

Not sure what to make of it but it is not a new observation.

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...20&postcount=3

[grim83]

For anyone following along a quick update.

The belly seems to have stabilized and quit moving. I sanded the saddle down some, but the underset is too much and i have decided to return the guitar as much as I dont want to. The guitar feels and sounds amazing but even though I know i can get the action close to perfect this isnt something I should have to worry about on a guitar of this level this soon. I am going to reach out to the seller tomorrow so unless they have some coming in soon i will probably be looking to purchase somewhere else and may even step down to the fs3 just for grins. It really sucks though because the one in my hands is exactly what I was hoping for minus the neck angle issues.