Are the new (reissue) Gibson Banners worth it ?

[ruger9]

Originally Posted by Dean Riley

I'd give wildwood a call - they had several last week when I worked with them. Great company and excellent guitars :-)

FWIW - when they ran the racks for me, they said all of the ST necked banners were really good guitars and there wasn't a bad one to be found :-)

I just checked their online inventory... they do have at least one J45 Banner Slim Taper...

[ruger9]

Originally Posted by zombywoof

Whie it is only one guitar, the neck depth specs I found for a 2005 Martin D18A clocked in at .860" at the 1st fret and 1.088" at the 10th. While it all comes down to an individual frame of reference, as I own three guitars with a depth north of 1.0" at the 1st fret, my take on it is you do not even start getting into Louisville Slugger territory until you hit around .960" at the 1st fret.

Yeah, it's not just about the thickness, but also about the shape (shoulders), how the shoulders are carved can make all the difference (C shape, U shape, V, etc.)

I have a feeling I'd prefer the Gibson slim taper, because I like the Fender Modern C on my electrics, I like the neck on my Ovation, Walden, and Farida- they are all "modern" shape/thickness necks...

I've never held a Gibson "historic"/V, so I have no idea what that's like. A local shop actually has a 50s LG2 with the V neck, I should go try it out, that would solve one mystery for me... IDK if I'll be able to find a J45 Banner around here... most retailers have slim pickings these days...

I just checked nearby Guitar Centers (which is where I found the D-18A, but that was 10 years ago)... neither has any Banners in stock. To actually play one, I'll have to drive... unless I can find other music stores around here that carry high-end acoustics...

[ruger9]

I'll likely not get to try an "original" next to a "banner" anywhere around here.... I guess the good news is the Banners (especially from someone like Wildwood) can be trusted for mail-order...

[Dean Riley]

Originally Posted by ruger9

I just checked their online inventory... they do have at least one J45 Banner Slim Taper...

I think they have 4 to pick from :-) If you call, they can check them out - they were helpful for me. I had one I liked the look of the most, called and told them sonically what I was looking for (without telling them what I liked) and low and behold, the one they said aligned with the one I was eyeing... I jumped on it. They also took ~10% off - so for sure worth the call.

[Dean Riley]

Originally Posted by ruger9

Yeah, it's not just about the thickness, but also about the shape (shoulders), how the shoulders are carved can make all the difference (C shape, U shape, V, etc.)

I have a feeling I'd prefer the Gibson slim taper, because I like the Fender Modern C on my electrics, I like the neck on my Ovation, Walden, and Farida- they are all "modern" shape/thickness necks...

I've never held a Gibson "historic"/V, so I have no idea what that's like. A local shop actually has a 50s LG2 with the V neck, I should go try it out, that would solve one mystery for me... IDK if I'll be able to find a J45 Banner around here... most retailers have slim pickings these days...

I just checked nearby Guitar Centers (which is where I found the D-18A, but that was 10 years ago)... neither has any Banners in stock. To actually play one, I'll have to drive... unless I can find other music stores around here that carry high-end acoustics...

Some of their historic V carves (on my J-45 vintage, for example) are quite nice and I really like them... it's a very soft V, but mostly just frees the shoulder up.

I've played the full size banner, some of the J-35 larger necks, and an AJ, and those are larger than I am comfortable with naturally.

The newer Slim Taper is not overly thin and is comparable to a Martin MLO neck. I think it's a nice neck, I have small hands and it's not too large, but it's not too thin either.

[ruger9]

Originally Posted by Dean Riley

I think they have 4 to pick from :-) If you call, they can check them out - they were helpful for me. I had one I liked the look of the most, called and told them sonically what I was looking for (without telling them what I liked) and low and behold, the one they said aligned with the one I was eyeing... I jumped on it. They also took ~10% off - so for sure worth the call.

Holy moly, I'd say... especially since I bought a $$$$$ guitar from them a couple years ago, full retail LOL

Most of the "banner" items don't mean much to me, except for the Legend wire... I have always wished acoustics came with bigger frets.... I'd also have ZERO issue with the upcharge if I could get ONE THING: thicker trebles. Thicker tones from the plain strings. That's always the Achilles heel of an otherwise-awesome guitar. I know videos aren't the same as live, but between videos and reviews I'm trying to get a handle on the tonal differences between Standard/Original and Banner... some say more lows with Banner, some say more highs... sucks 'cause I'll never be able to compare the 2 side-by-side.

As soon as I can (I'm hoping this week), I'll at least go play that LG2 Banner that's in the local shop, get a feel for the V-neck. A couple years ago I was pining for an LG2...

[gfirob]

As was stated above, they are all individuals so there is always that to keep in mind. But I have a 2014 Gibson Smeck Stage Deluxe reissue, a custom limited edition from the Montana factory and those guys can do a fabulous job if all the variables are running running their way. But you have to play them, you can't count on the make or the model.

[ruger9]

Originally Posted by gfirob

As was stated above, they are all individuals so there is always that to keep in mind. But I have a 2014 Gibson Smeck Stage Deluxe reissue, a custom limited edition from the Montana factory and those guys can do a fabulous job if all the variables are running running their way. But you have to play them, you can't count on the make or the model.

Yeah, that's kind of the shame of it: besides the local LG2 Banner, I won't have the opportunity to play any of the guitars being discussed. Ever since Covid, the music stores have really "downgraded"... seems to be a higher quantity of less-expensive guitars these days. I remember, not too long ago, being able to walk into an acoustic room and have all kinds of high-end guitars to play. It's not that way anymore (around here). Unless I happen to fall in love with that local LG2, I'll likely be buying "sight unplayed", whether from a retailer or used...

I finally get to the place where I'm ready to drop some "real" money on a high-end acoustic, and a guitar safari isn't really possible.

[Murphy Slaw]

Originally Posted by ruger9

a guitar safari .

Love it...

[zombywoof]

Originally Posted by Dean Riley

Some of their historic V carves (on my J-45 vintage, for example) are quite nice and I really like them... it's a very soft V, but mostly just frees the shoulder up.

I've played the full size banner, some of the J-35 larger necks, and an AJ, and those are larger than I am comfortable with naturally.

The newer Slim Taper is not overly thin and is comparable to a Martin MLO neck. I think it's a nice neck, I have small hands and it's not too large, but it's not too thin either.

A J45 with a V carve neck is just another instance of Bozeman getting some things right and some things wrong when they attempt to "reissue" a guitar from a past catalog. Not a good or a bad thing. Just different. As far as I know, the last Gibson to sport a V neck would have been in early-1941 depending on when Gibson used up any leftover stock. In that year Gibson started going with a standard formula which included scalloped X bracing and round shoulder C carve necks.

My '42 J50 has the C carve neck with a nut width of 1.745" and a depth at the first fret a bit over 1.0". As far as feel though, my most comfy old Gibson sports a 1 7/8" nut and a soft V carve neck measuring just a tad deeper than that on my J50. Still, more than a few find the 1950s necks with their C carve and depth at the 1st fret in the .910" to .930" range the best there ever was. Ain't life grand?

[Dean Riley]

Originally Posted by zombywoof

A J45 with a V carve neck is just another instance of Bozeman getting some things right and some things wrong when they attempt to "reissue" a guitar from a past catalog. Not a good or a bad thing. Just different. As far as I know, the last Gibson to sport a V neck would have been in early-1941 depending on when Gibson used up any leftover stock. In that year Gibson started going with a standard formula which included scalloped X bracing and round shoulder C carve necks.

My '42 J50 has the C carve neck with a nut width of 1.745" and a depth at the first fret a bit over 1.0". As far as feel though, my most comfy old Gibson sports a 1 7/8" nut and a soft V carve neck measuring just a tad deeper than that on my J50. Still, more than a few find the 1950s necks with their C carve and depth at the 1st fret in the .910" to .930" range the best there ever was. Ain't life grand?

My conclusion after owning 5 Gibsons, and playing dozens of others, is that with Gibson, don't assume anything - each guitar is its own thing and needs to be tried. This is both a blessing and a curse :-)

The blessing is I have more "fun" trying Gibson guitars out because they are so different, both in feel and sound. Every Gibson guitar is it's own unique voice. You never know what you are gonna get and every once in awhile, you strike gold and find something that blows your mind :-) It can be a journey finding "the one" or "a one" and it may not be the model you expected... for example, I don't own any doves, but played one 4 years back that was amazing. I had not ever considered that model for some odd reason, but after that, realized they could be amazing.

The curse is it can be a never-ending quest and ordering sight unseen without someone willing to play and describe tone/feel is a bit of a gamble (and why I'm on my 5th lol).

But alas, this is what makes guitars fun and the process fun :-)

[Nid2007]

Originally Posted by ruger9

What makes the new "Banner" models different from the standards? Looking at Southern Jumbos/J45s, and I can't figure out what the uncharge is for... other than the Banner inlay? I know there must be more to it...

I know the simple differences... different neck profile, the Banner SJ is rosewood and the Original is Mahogany... maybe that's the big price difference? The B&S wood?

I presume the upcharge is for the time put into making them so lightweight and balanced, plus the baked top.

I have a Banner LG-2 and have previously owned and/or played almost every original model banner and the various Bozeman reissues.

I’ve been very impressed with every one of the newer baked top Gibson reissue that I played. I spent a good amount of time with the Banner LG-2 reissue and was blown away—they nailed it. It sounds and plays just like mine, and may even be just as lightweight as mine.

If my collection were to get destroyed in a disaster or flood, my initial replacements would be the recent baked top versions of the J-45, Hummingbird, LG-2 and J-185. Hopefully the insurance $ would allow me to get the Murphy Lab versions so I wouldn’t have to worry about dinging them or dropping my G7 on the top 😁

[BoSoxBiker]

Originally Posted by ruger9

.......
I'd also have ZERO issue with the upcharge if I could get ONE THING: thicker trebles. Thicker tones from the plain strings. That's always the Achilles heel of an otherwise-awesome guitar. ......

I just love me some hybrid strings for that reason. Changes the relative nature of the strings. John Pearse makes a "New Medium" that runs 13-17-24-32-42-55. They do especially well on my Gibson HC 1939 SJ-200.

They also make a med-light that runs 13-18-22-32-42-52. I've used them at least once on a slope D HS Bourgeois, but my notes don't reveal what I thought of them except that I thought enough of them to leave them on 5 months. The only hint I have is when I took them off - "Lost some of it's rumble, and was more quiet than normal."

[abn556]

My experience with the higher end Gibsons and Martins is you need to go play them. I bought three higher priced acoustics since February - one for a buddy in Arkansas who wanted me to play them all and two for me. All three times I played 15-20 guitars, shortlisted down to 2-3 and then replayed and chose the pick of the litter. I realize its hard for everyone to do this, but a trip to Nashville or Wildwood, Music Villa, Fullers, Willcutt, etc… is a fun way to spend a weekend. One of these days I am going to drive up to Austin and go check out Collings.

[BoSoxBiker]

My luck with the re-issues has been mixed. I've got the 1939 SJ-200, 1952 Banner J45 reissues along with the Frank Hannon Artist Series Love Dove. The Dove is kind of a reissue, but is not one. They did the baked top thing as well as nicked a few attributes from an early 70's Dove.

Anyhow, the SJ-200 and Love Dove were and still are home runs. The Banner J45 was a different beast. I hated it. Way too bright. This thing was a blatty canon. I almost posted it for sale at least a couple times, but I decided not to. Something told me to be patient. I was imagining the change from 2nd to 3rd year and what this guitar might turn into. Sure enough, the J45's tone is beginning to get a little beef to it and is becoming joy to play. It's 6 weeks until it's NGD birthday.