Question for those that gig: Setlist building with capo position considerations

[Methos1979]

My wife and I (acoustic duo) were just having an interesting discussion about how and why we (I) build our setlists with regard to capo positioning. I've defaulted to grouping songs of similar capo positions together in order. In other words we start with all songs without capo (C-0, as we call it) and then ascend from there to song's capo'd at C-1, C-2, C-3, C-4, & C-5. Beyond this we also do the 'usual' grouping of starting and ending with upbeat, popular songs as well as grouping several upbeat songs together and then throw in a ballad here and there to break things up.

She pointed out that when we go to see professionals play, they typically are all over the place with regard to capo use. Of course, they are playing maybe 15 mostly original songs over an hour and a half with solo breaks to flesh things out while we're playing upwards of 60 cover songs over three hours, so apples to oranges to a certain degree for sure. But it got me thinking and wondering, do we really need to group them together by capo position? Obviously we don't HAVE to but I've always done it just so as to only have to move the capo to that position ONCE and not worry about it until the next move.

But I suppose it could also provide a bit of a break along with getting drinks of water, toweling off, etc., to break things up. Anyway, I was just wondering for those of you that gig and play several long setlists and have many songs where you use a capo, do you group them by capo or just slap it on wherever and whenever it shows up in the setlist? Do you even consider capo position when building your sets?

[birdsong]

When I was gigging with two groups I did the set lists. I was only concerned about overall tempo of our program (so we never did two slower song in a row for example); and song keys. In general I avoided having us do 2 songs in a row in the same key. Not always of course (some songs in the same key sound plenty different).

But these were our main considerations. A third was our singer in one group who enjoyed a break from singing every 4-5 songs so I had instrumentals worked in.

We used capos routinely but we did not plan around that. I use an Elliott and I can switch faster than the singer could announce the next song.

[nuchdig]

I am intentionally all over the place with regards to capo position. For two reasons: 1) I like to mix things up and I *think* this "diversity" is more appealing 2) to fool the audience into thinking I am actually good lol

[Osage]

A band I played in for 20 years used capos on close to half our songs and we never grouped the songs according to capo position.

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by nuchdig

I am intentionally all over the place with regards to capo position. For two reasons: 1) I like to mix things up and I *think* this "diversity" is more appealing 2) to fool the audience into thinking I am actually good lol

Lol - great idea!

The 'same key' repeat occurred to me but then I checked songs in any given capo position and the key's varied enough to make it a non-issue.

[L20A]

I like to do like the OP and try to do a set list with the Capo graduation up the neck as I go on.
I also mix the tempos of the songs as already suggested.

One big reason for the graduating capo is intonation.
If I play a song in open position and then move to a capo 4 or 5 position, I have to re-tune the Bass E string and the B string. then if I go back to open or capo at 1 or 2, I once again have to fine tune those 2 strings.

When I do a graduating up the neck list, it makes tuning easier and quicker.

I have gone so far as to getting an 8 string baritone guitar that I use for lower tuning songs and use my 6 string for the higher tuned songs.
This works great and gives a well rounded sound to my shows.

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by L20A

I like to do like the OP and try to do a set list with the Capo graduation up the neck as I go on.
I also mix the tempos of the songs as already suggested.

One big reason for the graduating capo is intonation.
If I play a song in open position and then move to a capo 4 or 5 position, I have to re-tune the Bass E string and the B string. then if I go back to open or capo at 1 or 2, I once again have to fine tune those 2 strings.

When I do a graduating up the neck list, it makes tuning easier and quicker.

I have gone so far as to getting an 8 string baritone guitar that I use for lower tuning songs and use my 6 string for the higher tuned songs.
This works great and gives a well rounded sound to my shows.

This was initially part of the reason for doing it the way I do but these days with advances in capo's (specifically, the G7th Heritage I just started using) I find that as long as the strings are new I can move about freely without needing to do much - if any - retuning. Of course this makes the case for not worrying as much about where in the setlist my capo'd songs reside.

I'm just not sure if not taking capo position into account when setlist building would be freeing or daunting! Our current 'Farmer's Market' setlist has 72 songs in it and having them broken down into like-capo subsets makes things a little easier, I suppose!

[Chriscom]

It sounds like I don't have anywhere near as many capo'd songs as Methos, but to be honest it would never occur to me group them that way. Like birdsong and others, my own three-hour solo setlist is organized for variety (especially keys) and pacing's sake, plus trying to avoid grouping together vocally challenging songs, or slipping in an easy one or an instrumental if I do.

[TheGITM]

Or, have enough guitars that you have one for each capo position...

[Stratcat77]

My situation is different in that in my acoustic duo we dont use set lists at all. We interact with the crowd a lot and take requests. So my capo use is all over the place. When I played in bands we felt a need to have it more thought out and to keep it moving.

[jklotz]

Mine is a bit of a challenge as I'm using capos and different tunings. I take 2 guitars, one for standard and drop D and another that is based around an open G with several variations thereof during the set. At the moment, I've got 5 different tunings I'll use in a performance. I try to group them in the way I want to set to flow, but I'm not going to retune between every song, so I group them by tunings. Capo positions are all over the place.

After I capo, I push down on the strings a la T. Emmanual then a tiny bump down on the low E string and it's usually good to go. If I'm unsure, 1 strum of a chord tells me what I need to know and I'll hit the tuner pedal if necessary, which seems to be about 20% of the time. Somewhat fresh strings are a must, old strings will sometimes give me tuning fits.

[soups]

Originally Posted by Osage

A band I played in for 20 years used capos on close to half our songs and we never grouped the songs according to capo position.

I clamp the capo on the guitar and play. It never once entered my mind as something I should consider. Different tunings? Sure. But capos are a non issue

[The Bard Rocks]

I would never have thought about arranging sets by capo position. Never. But then I might use a capo once or twice in a night.

Tempo, key, and subject matter tend to dictate the order. Instrumentals get slipped in here and there. I like them mixed up and always varied.

[Guitars44me]

I gave up set lists over 20 years ago. I never followed them much anyway. Once I started playing solo, I just pay attention to the audience, and I almost always have the next song figured out by the end of the previous one.

Like TheBardRocks, I too believe “ Tempo, key, and subject matter tend to dictate the order. Instrumentals get slipped in here and there. I like them mixed up and always varied.”

If I have a blank, I do carry a master list. And I will occasionally ask for requests, but I certainly don’t attempt to play anything I don’t feel comfortable about.

I do use capos often, and frequently two at once for raised versions of drop D tuning. A moment to adjust and fine tune just proves you care! Imnsho….

Remember, live music is not supposed to be like a DJ, although occasionally segues are fun.

It is good to practice talking to folks while tuning and capoing and retuning, etc.

The fact that we are humans is a draw of live music.

Just have FUN. Fun is easy to sell!!!

Paul

[Nymuso]

Never heard of this but I don’t agree. You gotta mix things up, keep the audience wondering what’s coming next as opposed to establishing a predictable pattern.

I like to maximize the low end, consequently I mostly capo at the first fret and sometimes the third; but in those latter cases I tend to use a drop D tuning. We use the fourth fret for only one song where we want kind of a music box quality to the guitar. All capo songs are placed randomly on the setlist.