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#1
10-02-2017, 01:34 PM
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A cry for help: Guitar for Robert Johnson style sound
Hi team AGF! I know the sound of the blues is in the player, the heart, the soul, the fingers and the life! And the old blues legends played on a $20 guitar! And while people answering this are 100% right (!), one can't do all that much with these answers when wanting to buy a guitar :-)
Yet, I really really need the help of this forum, to at least guide me! Knowing also that I need to try the guitar, play it, because everyone is different. But at least, would be nice to narrow down the choice!!! So, I am looking to buy a new smaller body guitar that I can use for delta blues / Mississippi blues / Robert Johnson type of music, often used in open G tuning, occasionally in standard tuning, always with finger picking and the occasional slide. My maximum budget would be in the $2,500 price range, give or take (but by all means, if there is cheaper gem out there for the above mentioned type of music, I won't hesitate either! I know there is a Gibson L1 RJ series, but they don't make them anymore, and got mixed reviews on this Board. So what would you recommend? Thank you so much! Greetings from South Florida! 
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#3
10-02-2017, 02:41 PM
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The classic Robert Johnson guitar from the photos is the Gibson L-1 flat top. These original Gibson guitars were not X-braced until sometime in the 1930's.. They went through several bracing styles including A and H bracing (adapted from the Archtops) and conventional ladder before switching to the X....
The dimensions of this guitar are actually very similar to the Taylor GC. Honestly - I know it sounds crazy, but I might try out playing some of his stuff on a Spruce/Maple Taylor GC... Just for grins... Another alternative is the old "round bottom" ladder braced Harmony brand Grand Concert from the late 1930's and early 1940's. There were several Spruce/Mahogany versions of this guitar made in the round bottom profile through the mid 1940's... They then changed to a more "conventional" guitar shape and ran that in the Sovereign line through the mid 1970's when they closed. The old ladder braced Harmony has a sound that many people associate with the old acoustic country blues.... Thanks
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#4
10-02-2017, 03:19 PM
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Besides the L1, RJ was known to have played a Kalamazoo ( K14 I believe ) - I've played one of these, & in open G with a slide, the sound is spot on; you'd certainly be able to find one in nice condition within your budget.
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#5
10-02-2017, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Robert Johnson probably played whatever guitars he could get his hands on. Johnny Shines, one of Johnson’s traveling companions in the mid ‘30s, said in interviews before he died that Johnson liked the Kalamazoo guitar, a budget brand made by Gibson, and also Stella guitars. ...No mention is ever made of him playing a Gibson L-1 (which would have been a relatively expensive instrument for him to afford). The L-1 had originally been produced as an arch top between 1902 and 1926. The guitar he is holding in the photo where he has a cigarette in his mouth is believed to be a Kalamazoo model KG-14, and some believe that he used a KG-14 in his legendary recording sessions in 1936 and 1937. Kalamazoo guitars was a budget brand offered by Gibson during the depression era. The KG-14 originally sold for $12.50... It appears on Reverb that mid-1930s Kalamazoo guitars can be had for well within your budget....
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FOR SALE Emerald X20-12 https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...19#post7467719 Fender Robert Cray Stratocaster Martin D18 Ambertone Martin 000-15sm Last edited by RP; 10-02-2017 at 03:29 PM.
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#6
10-02-2017, 03:32 PM
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I think Waterloo (Collings) and Martin both have models designed to replicate the old-timey sound which you seek.
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2015 Martin D-18 1982 Martin HD-28 2013 Taylor 314ce 2004 Fender Telecaster MIM 2010 Martin DCX1RE 1984 Sigma DM3 Fender Mustang III v2
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#7
10-02-2017, 03:47 PM
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Chrissy has just made the point (Waterloo and the CFM Whiskey Sunset) before me.
I have a Waterloo WL-12 which is a12 fret version of , essentially, a L-o body and was the nearest I could get to and rebuilt Gibson that a friend has. Also I would say that the link between RJ and the L-o /L-1 is very tenuous. I suspect that either would be in your budget, but the market is currently favouring small bodied guitars, bioth US and Far-eastern made - so, knck yourself out! let us know what you get. Oh - another point - some Waterloo guitars are offered either ladder braced or X braced - and it appears to me that there are quite a lot of the ladder braced on Ebay ..used. Make your own conclusions.
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Silly Moustache, Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer. I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom!
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#8
10-02-2017, 04:00 PM
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IMO, Waterloo would be the most obvious choice. I'd go for one of the the 12-fret models, ladder-braced if blues is your main focus.
A Gibson 00L Standard would certainly be worth a look, as would the Martin 0017S. But don't count out a wood-bodied National. Even if you don't play slide, the nasal tone and raw attack of a good resonator takes you straight back to Clarksdale. Welcome to AGF -- hope you weathered the hurricane okay down there!
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#9
10-02-2017, 04:04 PM
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Recording quality during RJ's time wasn't the best and those are what we are hearing....
I would just get a Jim Dandy 
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#10
10-02-2017, 04:12 PM
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Under $1000. Adirondack and Mahogany.Put a set of Retros on it and away you go!
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Nothing bothers me unless I let it. Martin D18 Gibson J45 Gibson J15 Fender Copperburst Telecaster Squier CV 50 Stratocaster Squier CV 50 Telecaster
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#11
10-02-2017, 04:27 PM
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AGF member, Stamper, has a Waterloo WL-S listed in the classifieds which is still available, I think.
I have the same model - light as a feather, ladder braced and very well made - it's a Blues machine. From what I've been reading, Robert Johnson only posed with a studio Gibson for the famous photo that shows him holding one. His preferred guitars for performances were Stellas and Kalamazoos. The "S" in Waterloo WL-S stands for Stella as the guitar is an homage to those early ladder braced guitars from the 20's and 30's If you want to know how it sounds - there are plenty of videos, including this one linked below, which actually shows the very guitar I bought being played by one of the salesmen where I bought it. https://youtu.be/MmUrOi29ZxU
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Martin 000-17SM Supro 2030 Hampton Taylor 562ce 12 X 12 Taylor GS Mini-e Spruce/Rosewood Waterloo WL-S Wechter TO-8418 Cordoba 24T tenor ukulele Kanile'a Islander MST-4 tenor ukulele Kiwaya KTC-1 concert ukulele Kolohe concert ukulele Mainland Mahogany soprano ukulele Ohana SK-28 soprano ukulele Brüko No. 6 soprano ukulele
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#12
10-02-2017, 04:43 PM
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The Gibson in the photo is widely believed to have been a prop guitar as nobody who knew Johnson ever recalled seeing him with one.
If you got what Rev. Davis called a sporting right hand it don't matter much what guitar you are playing. The Oscar Stella Concert though is the guitar that will always be associated with the pre-War blues players. They are ladder braced (three top braces plus the bridge plate) and often all-birch. If you are dead set on new version, you might look for a used Hauver who made a dandy version of the 1920s Stella Concert. Also Fraulini although I am not sure you can get into one new at your price point. I own two Schmidt guitars - a Galiano Jumbo and a "Westbrook" Stella.  
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"You start off playing guitars to get girls & end up talking with middle-aged men about your fingernails" - Ed Gerhard Last edited by zombywoof; 10-02-2017 at 04:51 PM.
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#13
10-02-2017, 04:49 PM
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Hi Lookbrightside and welcome to the AGF!!!
I've owned just about every 'blues' guitar imaginable, from the kind that RJ had in his pictures - two very different guitars and who knows if he actually used those on the recordings - Gibson L-OO's L-G's archtops, 12 fret Stella's, you name it. I wound up owning three Waterloo guitars - WL-14 (X braced), WL-S (ladder braced), and the WL-JK, (X braced). In my humble opinion, you can really capture, or at least come close to Johnson's sound with the WL-14. New they go for $1,850 and as they are built by Collings, they are truly top quality machines. Have fun!!!
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Fingerpicking Acoustic Blues/Rag/Folk/Slide Lessons https://www.tobywalkerslessons.com/
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#14
10-02-2017, 04:54 PM
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On another note: people are under the misconception that you need a guitar that was built during the thirties in order to sound 'authentic.' I personally think that's a joke. Those guitars are now 80 years old, and sound much different now then they did when those original artist's played them when they were relatively new.
Sure, you can always 'think' your 'authentic' by playing that old guitar with the 'mojo,' and if that's the case then all the power to you.
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Fingerpicking Acoustic Blues/Rag/Folk/Slide Lessons https://www.tobywalkerslessons.com/
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#15
10-02-2017, 06:08 PM
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Something like this might do...
My KG-14 seems to get a lot of RJ play time
 I play any style on it though. ^ I think the 'mojo' is cool Toby. In the sense that, every time I play it, I remember that this guitar was built before WWII... has been around the world... countless hours of music... I play to crowds of approximately 0 people so there's no pretentiousness about it for me And don't pretend you wouldn't want to play it if you visited...
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. I play Lowdens, Martins, Ponos, a Doerr and an old Kalamazoo
Last edited by RustNeverSleeps; 10-02-2017 at 06:16 PM.
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