Martin binding update

[dnf777]

I don't mean this to be another "pile on" thread, but to share any meaningful updates.

My two affected Martins (2010 and 2012) have been repaired once and twice each, and now BOTH are pulling apart again.

I spoke with my very helpful and sympathetic local authorized Martin repair shop. The luthier and I agreed that some glues are better than others, but essentially this is a binding shrinkage issue, not solely glue.

He also mentioned that on any given day, there are roughly 20 Martins on their bench for similar repairs, and although Martin usually pays without hassle, they certainly don't want any further involvement in the process.

I'm not sure if this was meaningful in any way, but it seems that it shows there is still no definitive solution, and that they are just applying band-aids until our generation moves on and they will solve this issue by attrition. (my opinion)

[Jaxon]

i don't own a big m brand but could m not learn something from other brands that don't have a continuing binding issues?

[abn556]

Would be generous if they offered to replace all the bad binding with flamed maple binding as an upgrade for everyone’s trouble. It would solve the problem and send a message that they value their customers.

[eyesore]

Had mine glued,it's coming apart again. I'll live with it.Tired of the hassle of taking it in for repair.

[nitram]

I don't understand how Martin can be so passive in the midst of this debacle.
This has gone on far too long.

[Rudy4]

I've posted many times in the past when the "MBP" topic comes up, but I think what Bob Taylor relates starting at 17:45 in his recent Driftwood Guitars interview might shed some light on the problem. Bob is VERY diplomatic!

[Mobilemike]

My D18 has been in the shop since last July for binding repair, I’m finally getting it back next week.

The luthier said that Martin initially declined to cover the repair, he appealed, and then they covered it.

This will be the second time this guitar has had its binding repaired under warranty.

[davidd]

I sold my 2013 Martin D18 after it had separated twice on me. I kept my 1990 D16M that "knock on wood" is fine. Sad that this has made me shy of ever owning another recently made Martin.

[phavriluk]

Originally Posted by dnf777

I don't mean this to be another "pile on" thread, but to share any meaningful updates.

My two affected Martins (2010 and 2012) have been repaired once and twice each, and now BOTH are pulling apart again.

I spoke with my very helpful and sympathetic local authorized Martin repair shop. The luthier and I agreed that some glues are better than others, but essentially this is a binding shrinkage issue, not solely glue.

He also mentioned that on any given day, there are roughly 20 Martins on their bench for similar repairs, and although Martin usually pays without hassle, they certainly don't want any further involvement in the process.

I'm not sure if this was meaningful in any way, but it seems that it shows there is still no definitive solution, and that they are just applying band-aids until our generation moves on and they will solve this issue by attrition. (my opinion)

I fear this explanation of Martin's reluctance to own this problem makes sense. And I like the clearsighted comments about the problem itself; this is NOT something resolved with masking tape and a dose of CA.

[SFCRetired]

My guy told me it was a binding issue more than a glue issue as well. I had my D18 repaired 2 or 3 years ago and it has been fine ever since. If this is correct then the luthier needs to stretch the binding and not just reglue it. If you reglue something that comes apart it will most likely come apart again.

Pretty sure Martin has took a big hit with the guitar playing community the way they have addressed this.

More builders need to take the Larrivee approach and use wood and not plastic.

[dnf777]

Originally Posted by abn556

Would be generous if they offered to replace all the bad binding with flamed maple binding as an upgrade for everyone’s trouble. It would solve the problem and send a message that they value their customers.

This is where I'm at. I'm willing to pay for this, as I love the guitars otherwise. I would want Martin to pitch in the the fair market cost of the binding repair though. This becomes a much bigger job of binding, as the finish would need to be completely re-done...or a VERY tedious touch up around the edges.

Originally Posted by Rudy4

I've posted many times in the past when the "MBP" topic comes up, but I think what Bob Taylor relates starting at 17:45 in his recent Driftwood Guitars interview might shed some light on the problem. Bob is VERY diplomatic!

Interesting. Never looked at it from that angle, but it makes perfect sense.

Originally Posted by davidd

I sold my 2013 Martin D18 after it had separated twice on me. I kept my 1990 D16M that "knock on wood" is fine. Sad that this has made me shy of ever owning another recently made Martin.

Same here. Vintage Martins...yes. New Martins...not any more! Unless they come clean, make amends, and behave like a responsible company.

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by Mobilemike

My D18 has been in the shop since last July for binding repair, I’m finally getting it back next week.

The luthier said that Martin initially declined to cover the repair, he appealed, and then they covered it.

This will be the second time this guitar has had its binding repaired under warranty.

Eight months (!!!) to fix the binding? I've had entire custom instruments built in less time (with maple binding no less). What was the shop doing with it all that time?

[dnf777]

Originally Posted by SFCRetired

My guy told me it was a binding issue more than a glue issue as well. I had my D18 repaired 2 or 3 years ago and it has been fine ever since. If this is correct then the luthier needs to stretch the binding and not just reglue it. If you reglue something that comes apart it will most likely come apart again.

Pretty sure Martin has took a big hit with the guitar playing community the way they have addressed this.

More builders need to take the Larrivee approach and use wood and not plastic.

Totally agree with both points. And yes, my luthier heated and stretched the binding prior to re-glueing. Twice. Another problem, is clearing the old glue out of the binding channel without altering the depth/shape of the channel.

I have used only wood binding on my builds after my first build which used white plastic with "binds-all" glue. (and it is still glued perfectly intact). But wood binding makes more sense, and IMO, looks much better anyway.

[Railroad Bum]

Originally Posted by dnf777

I don't mean this to be another "pile on" thread, but to share any meaningful updates.

My two affected Martins (2010 and 2012) have been repaired once and twice each, and now BOTH are pulling apart again.

I spoke with my very helpful and sympathetic local authorized Martin repair shop. The luthier and I agreed that some glues are better than others, but essentially this is a binding shrinkage issue, not solely glue.

He also mentioned that on any given day, there are roughly 20 Martins on their bench for similar repairs, and although Martin usually pays without hassle, they certainly don't want any further involvement in the process.

I'm not sure if this was meaningful in any way, but it seems that it shows there is still no definitive solution, and that they are just applying band-aids until our generation moves on and they will solve this issue by attrition. (my opinion)

Unfortunately, I see all sorts of problems with more recent Martins (say, in the last 10-15 years). I am not sure what's going on with them, and I used to be a Martin fanatic, but I have stayed away from them because of the binding and neck issues in particular. And the Martins that I would want are way above my pay grade.

[Osage]

Originally Posted by SFCRetired

Pretty sure Martin has took a big hit with the guitar playing community the way they have addressed this.

I work on guitars for a living so I see a fair amount of Martin binding repairs. I'm sure they've taken a hit here on the AGF but this place doesn't represent the guitar playing public at large. The vast majority of people who bring their Martins in for binding repair have never heard of the issue and have no idea that it's a widespread problem. I truly don't think they've taken a big hit, which is why they've never properly addressed the issue.


The thing I've wondered for a few years now is if Martin is actually paying for these warrantee repairs or if they have insurance for something like this?