Thoughts on Martin Size 5 Terz

[Nedward]

I just bought on Reverb a mint condition Martin Size 5 Terz. I’ve never played one before but I’ve always wanted one for the compact size. This particular model has an engelmann spruce top and rosewood sides and back.

I’m wanting to play this in standard tuning instead of Terz.

What do you guys think of these guitars and would this function well as a main guitar for leading worship with? I’m a smaller dude at 5’7” and I’m sick of playing dreadnoughts and larger-bodied guitars. Thanks!

[pjroberts]

Is that the same one Sting has played in recent years? That guitar seems great fingerstyle and amplified (which I presume available for most worship stages).

[semolinapilcher]

Have fun getting to know this guitar. See if it works for you tuned E-E. I’d think you’d want medium strings for sure (13-56) if not even thicker... otherwise it may get a little slack-y.

I love my 5-15 but definitely tune it G to G. It really rings out, and with a very different voice than my other guitars.

So far my favorite thing to do with it has been to use it for Christmas caroling with a small group - so many of them are in F!

[JoeCharter]

I think terz guitars are nice for a change but I would never use one as my main guitar. They look small -- and sound small as well.

[gr81dorn]

I have two and they are my favorite guitars. I’ve come to treat them as a different instrument, much the way a Violin and a Cello are related and it’s changed my entire musical experience. I’ve gotten into some other high tuned instruments (kiku and Gryphon) as a result and love having a different voice to bring to a song as well as the challenge to learn transposition to a much deeper degree than I’d known it.

I think everyone should have a Terz or similar.

Definitely tune it as it was intended, otherwise you might as well not have it because it’s voice definitely isn’t strongest tuned EtoE.

[Wade Hampton]

Ned, I've owned a really nice Brazilian rosewood terz guitar that was built for me by luthier Roy McAlister. I've also been around a few in various music circles over the years.

Tuning the terz to standard tuning can be done, but you won't get very good results, either tonally or intonation-wise. Medium gauge strings tuned to E standard tuning will be like rubber bands on it. You'll have better luck going with a heavier gauge, but the real question is: why do that? I mean, I understand the appeal of being able to just pick it up and play it without having to transpose any chords, but it's never going to sound very good that way.

There was one guy up here in Anchorage (since moved out of state) who used to show up at a lot of jam sessions and open mics who had a 1950's-vintage Martin 5-18. He used light or extra light gauge strings on his terz, and tuned it a step higher than the traditional G to G terz tuning, at A to A. That's the traditional tuning used on requinto, a Mexican small guitar variant.

This A to A tuning is actually a lot more practical when playing music with other people. In the G to G tuning an open G formation gives you a Bb natural, but in the A to A requinto tuning G formation gives you a C natural, C formation gives you an F natural, and so forth.

If you just hate transposing and thinking along those lines, you can experiment and tune the guitar E to E. But it's virtually certain that - once you get your string gauges figured out - you'll need to get a custom bridge saddle carved that intonates correctly for those strings.

But even if you spend the money and get the string gauges figured out and the bridge saddle intonated for that tuning, you won't be tapping the true potential of the guitar. It's never going to sound as good tuned down there as it will at the pitch it was designed for.

Here's my suggestion: before you spend any more money put a set of lights or extra lights on the guitar, and tune it A to A, just like the notes you get when you capo a standard guitar at the fifth fret. And then just play it and don't worry about what keys you're actually in for the time being, just get used to it in that upper register.

If you don't play music with other people on a regular basis, then put some lights on it and tune it G to G. Just explore the guitar in the register it was designed for before you try turning it into a standard guitar.

Because if you insist on tuning it to standard pitch, at best it will be mediocre, and the intonation will probably be way off, as well. Remember, the terz guitar is a guitar variant, a different instrument from standard guitar. Trying to make it be one is like trying to stuff a square peg in a round hole.

I'm sure that's not what you want to hear, but it's true, nonetheless.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

[AZLiberty]

Hmmn, now I want to get one of these and tune it A to A like a Tacoma Papoose.

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by AZLiberty

Hmmn, now I want to get one of these and tune it A to A like a Tacoma Papoose.

That's exactly what that guy who lived up here used to do. I own a Tacoma Papoose and like it, but truthfully, side by side his 5-18 was a much better-sounding guitar. It had more bass response and more overall depth to the tone.

The Papoose is great when you've got a bunch of people playing acoustic instruments and you want to play a high end part that really cuts through. It's hard to beat it for that. But the 5-18 tuned A to A works well in that context but is also a lot more fun to play by itself: there's just more going on musically with it.


whm

[jpmist]

Knopfler played one on his Get Lucky album. First 45 seconds of video below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMhYNEjXfPk

[Nedward]

Hey Wade,

Thank you for the response and for the great info. I've read similar responses about tuning down on these guitars and that it's feasible but doesn't allow the guitar to shine like it could otherwise. I've been on a quest over the last few years to find a great guitar in a small package and I'm hoping I can use this for a lot of applications. I work in a band setting where we have plenty of accompaniment including lots of low end bass so hopefully this will be a good purchase. Thank you!

[Wade Hampton]

Glad to have been of some assistance.


whm