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-   -   Nut width question....... (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154493)

terrapin 05-14-2009 08:01 PM

Nut width question.......
 
I recently read an interesting post to another thread about nut width that said something I had never thought about..............

So, the difference between a 1 3/4 and 1 11/16 or a 1 7/8 is ONLY 1/16 difference either way at the nut..............

My question......... How does that 1/16 change relative to string spacing as you move up the neck?

HHP 05-14-2009 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrapin (Post 1846367)
I recently read an interesting post to another thread about nut width that said something I had never thought about..............

So, the difference between a 1 3/4 and 1 11/16 or a 1 7/8 is ONLY 1/16 difference either way at the nut..............

My question......... How does that 1/16 change relative to string spacing as you move up the neck?


It's a 1/16th total. You have to divide by 6 to get the actual additional width between strings.

jeremy3220 05-14-2009 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrapin (Post 1846367)
My question......... How does that 1/16 change relative to string spacing as you move up the neck?

It's wider of course because strings form straight lines. Maybe I don't get what you're asking.

Diamondave 05-14-2009 08:10 PM

Oh, I don't know, the wider the better is my philosophy... :D

Jeff M 05-14-2009 08:11 PM

The strings separate a bit as they go towards the saddle on 1 11/16" nut width guitars just as they do on 1 3/4" nut width guitars.

Mauvais Beal 05-14-2009 08:11 PM

1 3/4 is best. And yes it gets wider up the neck but diminishingly so.

jeremy3220 05-14-2009 08:13 PM

The nut width and string spacing at the saddle are two independant specs. So if you are asking if the spacing at the saddle is increased... not necessarily.

Broadus 05-14-2009 08:25 PM

Obviously, the string spacing at the bridge has to be taken into account. The typical Seagull has a 1 7/8" nut width, but the string spacing at the bridge is only 2 1/8", according to Michel at Godin. Still, the string spacing at the sound hole has to be more on a Seagull than the sound hold string spacing of a typical 1 11/16" nut width with 2 1/8"bridge string spacing (not trying to insult anyone's intelligence, or did I insult mine?).

That's why the string spacing at both ends is important, it seems to me. Most folks assume that a wider nut width necessitates wider string spacing at the saddle. It may not. As a matter of fact, a wider nut width may have the same string spacing as a narrower nut width at the first fret, depending upon the spacing at the nut. I understand that some Yamahas with a 1 3/4" nut width have surprisingly narrow string spacing at the nut.

Bill

terrapin 05-14-2009 08:27 PM

OK, I will try to refine the question. It is purely an educational question because I like what I like, but I have grown to prefer 1 11/16 nut width. But I like to play mostly capoed up into the 2nd to 5th fret level.

Does the string spacing change incrementally so that a 1 11/16 nut capoed at 3 begin to more closely approximate to the spacing of a 1 3/4 capoed the same?

I have friends who play my 1 11/16 guitars without capo and remark it feels a little narrow for them........But, when I have them capo up even to 2 they said the difference seemed to go away???

Broadus 05-14-2009 08:37 PM

Russ, how does the measurement of the string spacing of one of your 1 11/16" nut width guitars at the third fret compare with the string spacing at the first fret of your OM-21, or am I still not understanding your question?

Bill

Jeff M 05-14-2009 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrapin (Post 1846397)
OK, I will try to refine the question. It is purely an educational question because I like what I like, but I have grown to prefer 1 11/16 nut width. But I like to play mostly capoed up into the 2nd to 5th fret level.

Does the string spacing change incrementally so that a 1 11/16 nut capoed at 3 begin to more closely approximate to the spacing of a 1 3/4 capoed the same?

I have friends who play my 1 11/16 guitars without capo and remark it feels a little narrow for them........But, when I have them capo up even to 2 they said the difference seemed to go away???

Not sure what the exact measurements are at the third fret, but capoing it up there basically moves the nut up there, and the strings ARE wider there (the entire fretboard gets wider as you move towards the saddle), making it closer to 1 3/4" width....so it makes sense that it wouldn't feel as narrow when capoed.
The fretboard width there may very well be 1 3/4". You can measure it and find out.

mmmaak 05-14-2009 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrapin (Post 1846367)
I recently read an interesting post to another thread about nut width that said something I had never thought about..............

So, the difference between a 1 3/4 and 1 11/16 or a 1 7/8 is ONLY 1/16 difference either way at the nut..............

My question......... How does that 1/16 change relative to string spacing as you move up the neck?

How it changes as you move up the neck depends on what your string spacing is at the saddle. Both are important variables to the fingerstyle player :)

ljguitar 05-14-2009 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadus (Post 1846395)
...The typical Seagull has a 1 7/8" nut width

Hi Bill...
The nut width of Seagulls is 1.8 inches (as opposed to 1.75'' on most Taylors) and the strings are slotted from the factory at the same width as a Taylor. The ''Entourage'' and ''Slim'' model necks are 1.72'' which are equivalent in nut slot width to the USA measurement of 1 11/16'' nut width.

Not trying to be contrary, and your basic premise is correct, a 2 1/4'' saddle spacing at the bridge (as opposed to 2 1/8'') will increase the distance between strings over the soundhole for fingerstyling...

Similarly, the depth of the neck profile affects fingerings with the fretting hand. A deeper profile can be harder to fret than a thin profile if a person has small/med sm hands and rides the thumb at the edge and wraps the 6th string a lot.

I think the 'differences' in Seagull's measurements come from the fact that they use metric measurements for many measurents in Canada, and then convert them to inches for the purposes of technical specs for the USA...

terrapin 05-14-2009 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadus (Post 1846406)
Russ, how does the measurement of the string spacing of one of your 1 11/16" nut width guitars at the third fret compare with the string spacing at the first fret of your OM-21, or am I still not understanding your question?

Bill

I will do that and get back..............

Brent Hutto 05-15-2009 04:04 AM

You can measure the distance from E-string to E-string at the nut. And you can measure the distance from E-string to E-string at the saddle. On my dred those measurements are 38mm and 56mm (approximately, from memory). Call it 1.50" and 2.20" for convenience.

So the distance from E-string to E-string at the 12th fret will be midway between those two numbers or 1.85".

The distance from E-string to E-string at the 7th fret will be a third of the way between or 1.73".

The distance from E-string to E-string at the 5th fret will be a fourth of the way between or 1.68".

The 3rd fret isn't a harmonic so I don't know the exact ratio but it will work out to somewhere around 1/6 of the distance or 1.62" more or less.

So the point made by Bill and others is correct. That 1-11/16" or 1.8" or 1-3/4" or whatever number isn't really informative. The string spacing on a particular guitar at the top and bottom is what it is. Measure that spacing and the spacings in between fall proportionally. There is no standard for how string spacing relates to nut width.


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