Martin tone comparison
 

Took my new Martin D-16rgt to my friend's house so he could check out my new git. Anyways, he has a Martin D-15 spruce rosewood and we played both side by side and his made my guitar seem lifeless. His guitar was full and rich with lovely overtones. We had the same strings and both guitars are completely stock. The only difference is his martin is 4 years old and had the opportunity to age and open up. I must admit, I was a bit disappointed in how tight my D-16rgt sounded. I considering bringing it back and starting my search again. Or should i just stick with it.

D-18V, buy it and you are done.

If the sound of his guitar has grabbed you and made your guitar seem 2nd rate, it will continue to haunt you....And seeing there isn't much of a price difference, maybe you should run after the one that has grabbed you....Guitars do open up of course, but the ones that sound great right away when they are new will be the guitars that are stellar in the future....
One thing though...they sound different when you are playing them as opposed to played by someone else...And every player will put his/her signature on a guitars sound.
My 2 cents, Boneyard

I don't know how you made the D-16rgt decision (in-store, on-line?), but it always helps to play as many different styles in and above (slightly) your price range as possible so you can live comfortably with your final choice knowing what else is out there.

1. I wouldn't count on any guitar to open up (it might, probably will...) but who wants to wait years for this possibility anyway?

2. Now that you've heard what your guitar is missing, you may never be able to truly appreciate it. It's like any relationship wherein one party has disappointed the other, deservedly or not...might take a while to bond again, if ever.

3. Given #1 and #2, I would take it back and A/B as many as I could...bring your friend along too, an extra pair of ears always helps. And have him bring his D-15 as a baseline.

Good luck.

none of the guitars you mention feature the rightfully renowned Martin dove tail neck design, only 18 Series and higher. So if you are looking for the classic Martin tone, and you should, look at 18 Series and higher Martins. a D-18V is a very affordable guitar that beats several much more expensive Martins.

Fob,

All the advice provided so far is pretty much right on. If you are still game for getting a better guitar, take your guitar with you to some really good stores and compare; try out a bunch of guitars. I agree that the -18 and above Martins are where the best, most reliable quality Martins live. Different people don't necessarily agree about whether mahogany or rosewood make for a better sound, but you need to find out what you like.

From my perspective, the Martin D-15 is not their best sounding guitar, so if your buddy's D-15 sounds way better than yours, then maybe there is real room for improvement. (And of course, as has been suggested, your own "bone tone" has a huge effect on how the guitar sounds.)

There's a whole world of great sounding Martins out there and the D-18V is certainly one of them. I also like the HD Martins, like the HD-28 and HD-35. Certainly more money, of course.

Thanks, Glenn

Rob,
The neck joint has no effect on the tone.

HE

And the two guitars in question are completely different guitars. One would expect the Mahogany or Sapele back/sides of the D-15 to sound different than the Rosewood of the D-16RGT. The sound you prefer may not be there in the D-15 but I do agree that you're going to be haunted by the sound difference (dislike) you experienced and it will continue to nag at you until you send me your D-15 while you look for another guitar. :D

I know of thousands of people who would disagree with that Howard.

That doesn't mean, however, that I am saying that guitars that don't feature the dove tail design element: Collings, Bourgeois, Taylor, etc., I'm not saying these aren't good guitars because clearly they are amazing guitars.

I guess the lower series Martins just aren't that impressive, overall, next to the "better" Martins, and I'm not talking bling factor here - 18 Series are pretty spartan. So maybe neck design is just part of it, but the OP did say he is dissatisfied with the sound of his Martin.

By the way, the D-15, even though it isn't a dove tail, it's a nice sounding guitar. The 15 Series is uniformly pretty good. And they hold up and get better, check out some vintage all hog Martins, amazing.

That's true, Howard, but the bracing underneath the top IS different for the Standard Series Martins and these other less expensive Martin lines. That can have some minor effect on the tone.

Fob Dylan, before you do anything else, get a fresh set of strings on the guitar, and see whether you like it better then. If the original strings are still on there, you really don't yet have an accurate idea of how the guitar truly sounds.

If you still don't like it then, maybe a return can be justified.

But don't judge it based on how it sounds with old strings, even if they still look okay. Put a fresh set on and then make your decision.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller

I must strongly disagree with any assertion that there is no tonal significance in the dove tail design. Again, that doesn't mean that a Collings, for example, doesn't sound awesome, it does, but the dove tail is part and parcel of the Martin sound. To deny it, is to deny there is anything characteristic in the tone of Martin Guitars. I certainly don't want my Martin to not have that design element. it would no longer be characteristic of what Martin is famous for.

Let me ask you this, why do the less expensive Martins not include this design, why? because it's less expensive to use the other method. and if they thought the other method is just as good and less expensive to build, why not just build all Martin guitars that way. It does make a difference which is why Martin is still building them with the dove tail.

I fail to see how a neck joint construction would affect tone?....it makes no logical sense to me....it soudns like the cutaway/no cutaway argument on tone....OF COURSE there is a difference...math and physics would say there is some difference...hwoever, the difference would be so extremenly small none of us would be able to tell a consistent difference.

The neck joint construction?...i'd love to hear why and how it affects the tone?

And i'm not denying it is true, just doesn't make sense to me...if you'd explain it i'd love to learn why....seriously

what are you talking about? the neck and how it is attached to the body is pretty darn integral to the total product and resulting sound of a guitar. Again, I didn't say there are not guitars that don't have a dove tail that are not just as good or even better, but on a Martin it matters because that's what Martin is famous for and clearly the bolt on Martin guitars aren't as good. And I've bought five new Martins in the last three years, so I have some experience with them.

w/re. to cuts, that's a whole different subject, but I have little doubt we would agree on that subject either :)

But yes, with regard to the lower Martins, as I said, and as Wade said, there are number of design elements that make the lower end Martins....lesser. I have to go, it's a beautiful autumn day in Santa Fe. Chili is in peak season.

I strongly disagree. There are many elements that make up the signature sound of any guitar, starting with the design, bracing, and construction of the top. There is neck mass, back bracing, tonewood, how the wood is cured (or not), mass of the bridge, how the top is connected to the sides--I would wager all of these have more impact on tone than the neck joint.

That the dovetail joint is all wood and no metal would be my guess as to any tonal differences one might lend to a guitar. A solid (or not) connection is a solid connection. And I'd pony up serious money to have people take a blind test on 100 guitars and tell me which ones were dovetail and which weren't.

Or because the market won't let them. Because lot of people believe it would be a difference in quality or tone to do it differently, evidence aside.

You have people going on the rampage about wings on a headstock in the Martin world--it's traditionalism and that's OK, but let's not mistake it for empirical fact.

yes, but 'why' does it make a difference is the question?....you are talking about where the headstock is attacked to the neck right?...so if you make that a different way, it affects the tone?...i simply don't buy it....but that doesn't exactly mean much :) If you are talking about where the neck is attached to the body, then I can understand that a bit more I think....since that is in direct contact with the guitar body.