Nut width question.......
 

I recently read an interesting post to another thread about nut width that said something I had never thought about..............

So, the difference between a 1 3/4 and 1 11/16 or a 1 7/8 is ONLY 1/16 difference either way at the nut..............

My question......... How does that 1/16 change relative to string spacing as you move up the neck?

It's a 1/16th total. You have to divide by 6 to get the actual additional width between strings.

It's wider of course because strings form straight lines. Maybe I don't get what you're asking.

Oh, I don't know, the wider the better is my philosophy... :D

The strings separate a bit as they go towards the saddle on 1 11/16" nut width guitars just as they do on 1 3/4" nut width guitars.

1 3/4 is best. And yes it gets wider up the neck but diminishingly so.

The nut width and string spacing at the saddle are two independant specs. So if you are asking if the spacing at the saddle is increased... not necessarily.

Obviously, the string spacing at the bridge has to be taken into account. The typical Seagull has a 1 7/8" nut width, but the string spacing at the bridge is only 2 1/8", according to Michel at Godin. Still, the string spacing at the sound hole has to be more on a Seagull than the sound hold string spacing of a typical 1 11/16" nut width with 2 1/8"bridge string spacing (not trying to insult anyone's intelligence, or did I insult mine?).

That's why the string spacing at both ends is important, it seems to me. Most folks assume that a wider nut width necessitates wider string spacing at the saddle. It may not. As a matter of fact, a wider nut width may have the same string spacing as a narrower nut width at the first fret, depending upon the spacing at the nut. I understand that some Yamahas with a 1 3/4" nut width have surprisingly narrow string spacing at the nut.

Bill

OK, I will try to refine the question. It is purely an educational question because I like what I like, but I have grown to prefer 1 11/16 nut width. But I like to play mostly capoed up into the 2nd to 5th fret level.

Does the string spacing change incrementally so that a 1 11/16 nut capoed at 3 begin to more closely approximate to the spacing of a 1 3/4 capoed the same?

I have friends who play my 1 11/16 guitars without capo and remark it feels a little narrow for them........But, when I have them capo up even to 2 they said the difference seemed to go away???

Russ, how does the measurement of the string spacing of one of your 1 11/16" nut width guitars at the third fret compare with the string spacing at the first fret of your OM-21, or am I still not understanding your question?

Bill

Not sure what the exact measurements are at the third fret, but capoing it up there basically moves the nut up there, and the strings ARE wider there (the entire fretboard gets wider as you move towards the saddle), making it closer to 1 3/4" width....so it makes sense that it wouldn't feel as narrow when capoed.
The fretboard width there may very well be 1 3/4". You can measure it and find out.

How it changes as you move up the neck depends on what your string spacing is at the saddle. Both are important variables to the fingerstyle player :)

I will do that and get back..............

You can measure the distance from E-string to E-string at the nut. And you can measure the distance from E-string to E-string at the saddle. On my dred those measurements are 38mm and 56mm (approximately, from memory). Call it 1.50" and 2.20" for convenience.

So the distance from E-string to E-string at the 12th fret will be midway between those two numbers or 1.85".

The distance from E-string to E-string at the 7th fret will be a third of the way between or 1.73".

The distance from E-string to E-string at the 5th fret will be a fourth of the way between or 1.68".

The 3rd fret isn't a harmonic so I don't know the exact ratio but it will work out to somewhere around 1/6 of the distance or 1.62" more or less.

So the point made by Bill and others is correct. That 1-11/16" or 1.8" or 1-3/4" or whatever number isn't really informative. The string spacing on a particular guitar at the top and bottom is what it is. Measure that spacing and the spacings in between fall proportionally. There is no standard for how string spacing relates to nut width.

This is very true. I like a wider string spacing for fingerstyle, but I also like a little space on the fret board above and below the top and bottom strings. On some guitars (e.g. my Taylor) the top string's very close to the edge of the frets, and I sometimes pull the string over the edge when pulling off - not a great sound.

If you leave the string spacing at the saddle the same and increase the string spacing at the nut by a certain amount then the string spacing at the 12th fret will have increased by only half that amount. So yes, as you move up the neck the difference in string spacing at the nut is less noticable.

Hi Larry. Thanks for clearing that up. I knew that the Seagull nut width is 1.8" but had forgotten and mistakenly typed 1 7/8". And you are right to point out the narrower nut widths on some Seagulls. I mentioned the typical, wider classic Seagull nut width to juxtapose it with the evidently Godin-ubiquitous 2 1/8" saddle string spacing (a Godin choice that still perplexes me.)

Bill

Let's start with good arithmetic. The difference between 1-3/4" and 1-11/16" is 1/16". the difference between 1-3/4" and 1-7/8" is 1/8". So you are talking about 1/16" in one direction and 1/8" in the other, for a total variation of 3/16".

OK, the strings spread out as you go up the neck. The amount by which they spread varies among builders, and also with the purpose of the guitar. The Martin standard for OM style guitars is for the string spacing (center of the two E strings) at the bridge to be 1/2" more than the width of the nut, and for the width of the fretboard at the 12th fret also to be 1/2" more than the width of the nut. So the board's width at the 12th fret is the same as the string spacing at the bridge (which is what people usually mean when they just say "string spacing"). For dreadnoughts, the Martin standard is 1-11/16" nut, 2-1/8" 12th fret and string spacing. So the taper of the dreadnought board is less; it's 7/16" from nut to 12th fret, instead of the OM's 1/2".

There is a little room to play with that 1/2" flare in the board, and also room to play a bit independently with the string spacing. This depends on how wide the player wants the board to be up the neck, how wide the player wants the strings to be spaced apart up the neck, and also how close to the edges of the board the strings are to sit. For example, a flatpicker tends to want the strings closer together over the body than a fingerpicker. That's why the Martin standard is for closer spacing on the dreds, which are intended more as a flatpicking guitar. A jazz player is usually a flatpicker, and often will want even less flare on the board, so, for example, Bob Benedetto's standard board is 1-3/4" at the nut, and 2-1/8" 12th fret (probably also 2-1/8" string spacing, I'm not certain). The 12th fret and bridge spacing don't have to be identical--it depends on how close to the edges of the board the strings are to go as well as the spacing the player likes. I have found that a 1-3/4" nut and 2-1/4" string spacing can be comfortably used with the board only flaring to 2-3/16 at the 12th fret; I put the strings just a bit closer to the edges (an average of 1/32" on each side, but I'll usually give the high E more room than the low E).

Did this help?

To me the string spacing is what is critical. I played a new CA guitar with 1 3/4 nut but the E strings were well off the edge. It made it difficult for me to put my thumb around the neck and grab the low E string. Also the edges of the finger board seemed sharper and added to the difficulty. My Gibson J-100 is a little narrower than the 1 3/4 but they put the strings out closer to the edge, easier to grab and increase the spacing beyond what the CA is I believe. A very small difference can make a huge difference in feel, though I am sure you can get used to many different necks. But if you grap the E string (I know maybe not good form) spacing and placement makes a big difference.
Steve