Taylor GS mini tuned to terz or hey why not A-A?
 

Hi friends

Yes, with proper string gauge anything is perhaps possible on a 23.5" scale length. But has anyone ever done this? How was the feel/sound?

Many thanks//

Terz guitar scale length is around 21? Thats a pretty large difference. Doubt that true Terz would be possible?
Steve

Terz tuning is most certainly possible - I use my 630mm scale (24 3/4inches) Fylde Ariel as a Terz using Newtone Heritage Low Tension 11-47 strings. Great balanced sound and the feel is spot on.

Here's an example, with capo at fret 4, hence pitch equivalent to standard pitch at capo 7. The extra room afforded and longer strings attained when compared with the standard pitch equivalent are very pleasant.

Here's the sound -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHXzIqYgF9Y

Keith

Keith, that was beautiful, thanks for posting.

That is one sweet sounding guitar Keith. Amazing sound and great playing. Thanks for sharing. Yes, I guess it is possible also since I will be in dropped DADGAD-ish relative tuning.

Have you asked the makers whether they feel this guitar can stand that tension?

Thank you both for your kind comments.

No - I used my common sense -

The guitar was well used to normal 13-56 string sets at standard pitch which it had "worn" for some 13 years or so previous to this experiment.

For my Terz experiment - ie 3 frets higher tuning, I went down two gauges in string size, and, as I said in my earlier post I chose 11-47 Newtone Heritage Low Tension strings (which exert less tension than a "normal" 11-47 set). The resultant tension is pretty close to what the guitar is was used to before the experiment (now permanent!).

I took careful action and relief measurements before trying this, immediately after first changing, and then at intervals over the next couple of months for reassurance. These measurements have remained unchanged during the year or more I've had the guitar in this tuning.

Although I did not seek his advice before trying this, the maker, Roger Bucknall (Fylde Guitars) is well aware of my experiment and indeed put a link to one of my Ariel Terz videos in the Dec 2013 Fylde Newsletter.

http://www.fyldeguitars.com/news1213.html

Keith

That's very cool have a 22 3/4 scale guitar that I would like to try Terz, thought it would be problematic but need to think it through like you did. Not sure I really understand all the variables. Thanks much.
Steve

Indeed. Just wonderful music.

well, I did run the question by Taylor and the answer was basically.."no we never tried it. Do it and see what happens and adjust the trust rod once in a while".

I find it kind of strange that not more people are into terz tuning. The Gs mini should be a strong candidate for this tuning. Charles Hoffman makes a hell of a terz...that is the only guitar I ever regret selling.

//

I'm also very intrigued by this thanks to this thread and watching keith's excellent videos. I think that the newtone heritage series low tension strings are right for this application. I'm thinking out loud here so please correct me if I'm wrong (and I probably will be), but if keith used 11-47 to compensate simulating a terz tuning on a 24.75" scale length, could a gs mini owner use a higher tension since its scale length of 23.5" is closer to an actual terz guitar? Here are the different tensions for the newtone strings:

NHS-011 .011 .015 .019w .026 .036 .047 Total=114 lbs

NHS-012 .012 .016 .020w .028 .038 .051 Total=131 lbs

NHS-013 .013 .017 .022 .031 .042 .055 Total=155lbs

Now also available for DADGAD tuning:
NHS-DADGAD .013 .017 .020 .027 .036 .059 Total=122lbs

Could a gs-mni owner use a 12, 13, or DADGAD set instead? I'd like to have a set of strings that could feasibly do double duty meaning terz tuning when I have other guitars or around or standard tuning when traveling.

Well the Fylde is constructed differently and perhaps much more robust than the more mass produced GS mini. Given that the neck wouldn't need any adjustment, I doubly if one and the same set of strings can serve both purposes. What I was thinking of doing with a GS mini was to set her up with extra light nashville tuning strings (GHS sells a set), tuned up a minor third, with a relative DADGAD tuning (i.e. FCFA#CF). On a right guitar (GS mini just might be it) this should give a beautiful sparkling sound.

It is possible to overthink these things. Just go ahead and experiment, taking sensible precautions as I mentioned earlier.

To be honest I doubt you'll find one string set suitable for Terz and standard pitches, but you never know. The Terz tuning and tension will be the crucial factor as you can't go too heavy on the string gauge there. Tuning down to standard is likely to feel floppy, but you'll never really know until you try.

Good luck.

And thanks again to all for kind comments on the video. Newtone have put it on their Facebook page too!

Keith

The Tacoma Papoose has a 19.1" scale and was DESIGNED for A to A tuning with STANDARD LIGHT GAUGE strings, ie. 012 to 053. I tune mine to the "DADGAD" version of A (that is, GDGCDG) using a custom set of EXP strings (012, 015, 023, 030, 039, 053) that is essentially a "true light" gauge set, that is strings 1, 2 and 6 are light gauge and strings 3, 4 and 5 (which in ALL commercial sets of strings are, in my opinion, over-gauged with far more tension than they need...look at the string-to-string tension on ANY set of strings and see for yourself) are an extra-light gauge.

I strongly suggest that people start using a string-tension calculator. I use a spreadsheet but there are many online or downloadable options for "experimenting" with string gauges and tension. Just plug in your usual set of strings at your usual tuning, record the individual string and overall (sum) tensions, then start adjusting the scale length, string gauge and desired tuning to find out what will work at that same tension (individual strings AND overall sum). It's easy and worthwhile...I find that balancing the string tensions WITHIN a set of strings makes playing easier.

Phil

I have a Papoose too, and tune it B-B with 11-50 ish (can't remember exactly what right now!). This instrument has a very different tonality from a "normal" guitar though. My Terz experiment retains guitar-like tone - and size!

Your comments re unbalanced tension in commercial sets are spot on - most of the time most of us have got accustomed to it I think - trying a properly balanced tension set from individual strings is a very interesting experience - and a very pleasant one.

It's also precisely why I use the Heritage Series strings from Newtone for my Terz as these are designed to have almost equal tension on each string within a set and are as far as I know the only exception to your comment about commercial string sets.

Certainly agree these calculators can be useful as a quick and easy rule of thumb to get you into the right general area of what might be worth trying. The tensions of the Heritage strings will be lower than these charts give though, as the core/wrap ration is different from other strings, including Newtones own Masterclass series, which I use on my other instruments.

Keith