Chinese made guitars
 

Okay I have to say this: The Asian guitar making revolution has been very, very good to us. I'm sorry, it's true. I just played some Blueridge's and some Recording King's last night and was blown away by the quality of these instruments and the incredible price. Not to mention I just picked up a little winner by Yamaha for an amazing price on a SOLID WOOD Sitka Spruce/Mahog guitar (and there's even a little bit of bear claw in the top - and the Mahog is gorgeous) that was made in China.

Look I wish these guitars were made here in the States. It makes me sad they're not. I know "we" could do just as good a job (hell we could do it better - not to get xenophobic but we're the greatest workers in the world here in the US) but things aren't happening for us. Having said that I'm very happy with what China is producing. These are great guitars at an amazing price. In the end, as a player, I guess that's all I really care about.

PS yes I've lost jobs to outsourcing. I'm a software engineer, India has taken several jobs from me. I know it's rough. I don't complain, I just work hard when I get the opportunity.

There are great guitars made in the US
They may not be as cheap to buy but if you do buy them they do keep American workers working.....

before this thread goes in the wrong direction this is a reminder that some topics (ie. religion & politics, etc.) can create very strong feelings & reactions, therefore religious & political discussions will not be allowed in this forum. If any discussion becomes too heated or turns political or religious, the thread will be closed or edited at the discretion of the Staff.

Its probably worth remembering too that this forum is an international group. It has members from all over the world, not just from the U.S.

I have owned 3 Blueridges and still own 2. Amazing guitars not for the price, but for twice or thrice the price.

I'm with Rich.... reinforced by the "I'm sorry, its true..." straw man argument. Why are you sorry that someone makes guitars that you like a lot? I don't apologize for liking my guitars and don't care where they're made.

Clark

I'm not sure I'd agree about guitars from other Asian nations, but I agree about Chinese instruments. I've played some Chinese guitars over the past several years that rival American guitars from Martin, Taylor, et al, and word is that Chinese violins are starting to make inroads on the orchestral scene—not rivals for Stradivarius or any other vintage models, of course, but the equal of many modern European violins. I think there are political issues to address, but the quality of Chinese craftsmanship should be acknowledged.

I think the quality of the imports is a good thing as it has raised the bar for the low cost guitar market and provides a useable instrument for well under what a domestic builder could do.

Getting to a level of 70% of "great guitar" is pretty easy and formulaic and lends itself to low cost, high volume production. It's getting that last 30% of "great guitar" is where the costs and the artistry comes in.

On an ultimate scale, I have not found the imports to be all that attractive as I have not found their sound very appealing but I do not deny they offer a better experience for players on a budget or just starting out. The domestic builders have responded with some great less expensive guitars in recent years but they will simply never get down into the sub-$500 in any meaningful way due to their inherent cost structures.

These days I tend to restrain myself from getting involved in these threads, which may be 'reasonable' to start with, but then degenerate into a 'USA vs Rest of the World' more often than not.

Perhaps as Europeans (in my case), we address the emotive issue of job losses to another nation with less insularity - it's this that often leads to the less-guarded comments.

As Brits we have lost out to cheaper imports - however upsetting, it's a fact of modern and particularly the Western way of life.

We must all exercise our personal right to think, shop and view products according to our own opinions.

MODS - if you need to strike this out, please do so, but I am commenting in the spirit of understanding and moderation.

I don't know about religious implications but I've seen and tried the quality low priced products.

I've made same queries to some of the firms selling and making them as well as US and Canadian makers about their consideration for harvesting wood, handling chemicals and worker conditions. Larrivee, Martin and Taylor were the only ones who responded and gave responses that made me feel they give reasonable attention to sustainablity, care for their labor and care in handling toxic materials. Thus, I bought products from two of those firms.

God bless Taylor, PRS, Zion, and all the guitar makers / luthiers providing careers for their people and great guitars for us.
One of the reasons PRS is near and dear to me is the number of jobs they are providing to Marylanders. I don't believe it's wrong for me to feel this way.
God bless good people everywhere.

First off, nowhere in the title "God Bless The Chinese" does politics appear. Nationality, yes. Religion, I GUESS so... if you want to get technical, but not really. The word "God" doesn't make something religious, it's become part of our language... G-D, oh my god, god bless, god forbid, etc. etc.

Anyway, I'm torn on this issue as well. There are fantastic guitars coming out of China (and Japan, and Mexico, and elsewhere for that matter). I just bought a Walden that is some serious axe for only four bills. I don't really know where I stand on the "buy American" thing, simply because I don't really know all the facts. As much as I'd like to "buy American" because it "sounds good" to "keep Americans working", I'm not so sure that's 100% the case. Frankly, America has priced itself out of the global market on alot of stuff... I sometimes wonder if it's not the "undercutting" of the imports that's the problem, as much as the US cost of living has gotten so ridiculous we have to charge outrageous prices. My point being, "buy American" isn't everything it may seem at 1st glance.

I'd have no problem shelling out $3000 for an American-made beauty over a $500 chinese beauty, but sometimes reality is simply numbers. I can't afford a $3000 guitar NO MATTER WHERE IT'S MADE. So my choice is either buy a really well-made import, or a crappy USA-made entry level beater, or nothing at all. Easy choice.

And, what's the difference in buying an affordable chinese guitar and spending big bucks on something from ...Ireland... or france... or wherever? Seriously. I sometimes get the feeling that buying a $3000 handmade work of art from Europe is acceptable, but buying a very well-crafted $500 guitar from China is not. Hypocrisy IMO.

I agree with OP - anything that brings competition helps us consumers.

Some manufacturers choose to compete in all market segments, and some don't. Spend your money where it suits you, it all works in favor of the consumer.

I'm not gnashing my teeth over what I see coming from China or anywhere else in the market segments they target - they seem decent enough and will provide a good value for their target market. Caveat emptor as always.

I'm not the target market for most of the imports, but someday I will be, and when that happens the makers I prefer now will need to compete, which will be good for me personally.

With the exception of an ocasional lust for a Yamaha, I always buy American. Martin to be exact.

Do you buy AMERICAN first, or MARTIN first? Meaning, do you buy Martin BECAUSE it's American, or do you buy Martin because YOU LIKE MARTINs... and the fact that they are American is "icing on the cake"? Would you buy a Martin if it was made elsewhere?

"do you buy Martin BECAUSE it's American, or do you buy Martin because YOU LIKE MARTINs... "

Both and no.

Two weeks ago I told a friend, "I don't know exactly what my next guitar will be, but it will be made by Martin". I had in mind a HD-28AWB Elderly custom, or an 000-18V or OM-18GE. That was then. I just bought an Eastman AC420B. Not a Martin, not American. But I played it for an hour, and it spoke to me. I'll be considering Eastman for my mahogany OM, too. And I'll play some Martins and others, too. I don't delude myself into thinking my Eastman will be someone's collectible in 50 years, but then, I'll be dead and won't care very much ... ;)

I think in Europe we have a healthy cynicism that lends itself to the free market. In the UK if one of our manufacturers are outstanding they will tend to survive, producing very top quality goods. The lower end of the the market is conceded to those countries where the cost of living is lower because we cannot seriously compete on that front. times are hard for every country's manufacturers now but strangely enough we were tipped into recession by economic events happening thousands of miles away. Seems we are all inextricably connected regardless. Bearing that in mind it seems best to go for the best you can afford wherever it may be produced. I can see the point in considering work conditions and sustainability though. Some of the far east manufacturers are also pretty good on this front though.

As for Chinese-made guitars: Love em. Like American guitars, there are hits and misses. But the increased quality coming out of the East is great for us consumers.

And, even as a journalist, I know about outsourcing. Believe it or not, newspaper copy editors have been outsourced to several countries, mostly India. Talk about an oddity: People living thousands of miles away editing stories based in, say, Orange County. I shake my head just thinking about it.

Martin, Taylor and Fender all make their lower end guitars in Mexico if I'm correct, while Guild and Breedlove do in Asia. As much as I'm sure they would love to keep 100% of their production in the US, at the end of the day they need to be affordable to compete with other imports and make a profit.

I agree. There are great differences between products of the top tier American luthiers and the rest of the world with some excetions.

In terms of foreign-made musical instruments at my house, the champion nation by far is Canada - I just counted up and I've got six Canadian-made instruments here.

How come we never hear much on these online guitar forums about The Creeping Canadian Menace?!? THAT'S what really frightens me: that we're being slowly but insidiously Canadianized, and eventually we're all going to end up dressing like the McKenzie Brothers, and then take it further with hair and beards and missing teeth like all those French-Canadian hockey players whose idea of a good time is whacking people with a hockey stick!!


Wade Hampton "Pretty Scary, Eh?" Miller

PS: I think it's great that there are surprisingly high quality lowcost guitars coming out of China these days. We happen to be in a historical moment when that is actually possible. But the Chinese pay the same prices for raw materials as we do, and so eventually their prices will go up.

Short version: enjoy this historical moment while it's here, because it will change soon enough.

i agree with the original poster. blueridge was the company that first made me think of it, because their low end all solid guitars are so nice, and as you go up the blueridge line, they keep sounding better. their parlors are the only parlors i really like the sound of below three grand, and i actually like them as much as those more expensive ones.

one of the nicest guitars i've played in the last year was an eastman AC822. finish and hardware were first rate, sound was a dream, neck was perfect. it was one of the guitars i'll remember for a very long time. if it weren't so deep, i'd have laid it away in a heartbeat. and price-wise, it was a lot more than those entry solid blueridges, but it was still quite a value.

also i play small guitars only, and i have yet to find a small u.s. made guitar i really like at any price - i've never really liked the boxy sound of most smaller guits. but guild makes a couple GADS that both fit my needs physically and sound very good, one on layaway, the other to ship monday, btw. i've tried a lot of guitars before i ordered those two including plenty of martins and gibsons and taylors.

funny thing, i found myself writing about price here more than once, but because of my current need for a smaller guitar, price doesn't even come into it. gibson makes a few guitars that work physically, but they're made to have that old-time blues sound, which is not what i'm looking for. the only martin i played that was physically comfortable was a terze, and i didn't like it at all. taylor doesn't make an all solid guitar that is small enough, nor does breedlove.

so there is something else for me to like about chinese made guitars in addition to price/value, and to me it's essential.

One thing about the Asian made Guilds and Breedloves is that while they are impeccably built, they seem to be quite a bit heavier built than their US made counterparts. (I can tell a US Breedlove from an Atlas series simply by the weight), and while lots of folks like the GAD series all the ones I've played seem dead compared to the Waverly ones.

Wade, I love your point of view.

For me, it is not which country, which continent or which hemisphere. It is how the item is produced and what are the side affects of the production. Much of Asia and the many of developing countries don't even consider these concerns. So my choice is to buy from clean industries and clean producers rather than polluters. If that means I have to spend more for clean products, then I am willing to spend more for a clean world.

Regarding the OP's opening comments about quality of Chinese guitars, I can only say I have never played one I have wanted to buy. Sure some were better players than other similarly priced guitars, but I wouldn't buy them either. Another interesting observation is the number of threads here and on other forums asking how they can improve, repair or enhance these Chinese made guitars. At first they love them, but soon they need repairs, major adjustments and replacement parts. As you can tell, I have yet to be impressed. For me, the true test will be in 10 or 20 years to see how many of these Chinese guitars are still around and if they will ever have vintage qualities.

This is also a theme in the resonator world.

The "low cost" becomes more of a "mid cost" after hotrodding the guitar with better cones and better tuning machines. The time spent modifying the neck stick pedestals to make it more responsive, fixing whatever problems the nut and bridge have, and rough fret dressing all add up, too. And the cost of tools and supplies.

And finally the "just as good" posts and endless arguing on internet forums takes its toll. Rationalizing a new guitar indicates a problem IMO.

Not to highjack this thread, but....

Patti, here are some more suggestions for small bodied solid wood guitars.

Santa Cruz small bodied http://www.santacruzguitar.com/instr...allbodied.html
Santa Cruz Firefly http://www.santacruzguitar.com/instr.../ff_model.html
Santa Cruz PJ http://www.santacruzguitar.com/instr.../pj_model.html
Santa Cruz Style 1 http://www.santacruzguitar.com/instr...ty1_model.html

Collings Baby Series http://www.collingsguitars.com/baby-series.html

and from across the Atlantic..... Brook Guitars makes a number of small bodied guitars http://brookguitars.com/

Help me out here guys. Give me a list of acoustic Guitars that are still being made here if its not to tall an order.

The last few Martins I've played against my Johnson JD26 had no real advantage tonally or construction wise to merit me having to pay a small forune just to have a Martin when the JD26 was just as well built and had better tonal qualities at a more than reasonable price.

I've had to do a little adjusting to mine but it's doing just fine and I always am pleased with the sound and am amazed at the overtones this guitar makes.

Most of the Martins I've played lately have not had the sound that I expected to hear from them , but they were new instruments that probably needed to be played a while for them to start voicing well.

I've had in the past a D28, a D35, A hand made Gallager style D18 style guitar made by Tony Sullivan in Wartrace ,Tenn. Gibsons, Yamahas, Alvarez, Hofner, Seagull and none have been as nice as my JD26.

It's Asian made and I can't tell the difference in quality in make and the sound is great.